Layer / item forward or front.. issue

[JimB]

I'm using AC 2020 computer has graphics card accelerated.
DWG drawing related to attached layout.  (Nth elevation)
there are arrows (as blocks) used to identify items.

Early on I flattened all of them...

I cant bring any forward ... or ...  to the front...

So that when I print they are visible.

I've tried pretty much everything I can read or source to rectify the issue, over last 5 days. Without success.

Ive exploded them - no result
Ive used 'DRAWORDER' - no result

Ive made changes to graphics card no result

I'm exasperated and run out of topics to read to try and resolve..

Any solution be appreciated.

The attached file has  been stripped back from over 30mg of detail to 2.7
 

 

41512895_Cadforum-Floorplan03(Residence0102).dwg

[SLW210]

What needs to be brought to the front? 

 

I don't see anything that is over anything else. What exactly isn't plotting correctly?

[JimB]

The arrow and lines ... cant bring them forward (top)

[SLW210]

They are not on the same plane and not 2D Wireframe in Viewport.

 

Best would be to put them in Paper Space

[JimB]

Yes thanks ... I can do that and will as the easy the option.

But it doesn't resolve what i thought a very simple issue... to bring to front..?

So what your saying 'SLW210' is ...(the line was actually made as a spline...) can not be pulled to the front? Because it was/is a spline ?

This it the reason ?

Just trying to understand what I did wrong. In previous drawings I've not had the problem doing pretty much the same.

[Cad64]

32 minutes ago, JimB said:

Yes thanks ... I can do that and will as the easy the option.

But it doesn't resolve what i thought a very simple issue... to bring to front..?

So what your saying 'SLW210' is ...(the line was actually made as a spline...) can not be pulled to the front? Because it was/is a spline ?

This it the reason ?

Just trying to understand what I did wrong. In previous drawings I've not had the problem doing pretty much the same.

 

The problem is that your arrows and text are far behind the 3D solid, which is basically a wall that's blocking everything behind it.  I went into model space and moved the arrows and text in front of the object and now they display correctly. When working with 3D objects, it's better to add text in paper space to avoid these kinds of issues.

[JimB]

Again yes... I agree I could have done that ... they're sitting in line with the Y coordinate which is correct ... they are flattened.

I can do that ... manually move them. hats not the issue there should be auto result to do such a simple thing.

The other issue is when you do what your proposing ... when you do a perspective what you dragged forward often obstructs... anyway

 

SLW210 provided another solution ... just put them on layout.
I think the issue is the arrows (made with a spline) are not wire frame ... so cant pull forward or push back ... only thing I can come up with as reason...

 

 

[JimB]

Yes Cad64 ...

thanks also for the advice re paperspace   I think this best solution to avoid ongoing probs.

Just disappointing cos drawings are far easier to manage .... if you can avoid it. Less repercussions from my 'limited' experience.

Anyway appreciate your response

[Cad64]

4 hours ago, JimB said:

I think the issue is the arrows (made with a spline) are not wire frame ... so cant pull forward or push back ... only thing I can come up with as reason...

The spline is not the problem. The problem is that the text and leaders are physically behind a wall. Draworder can't change the fact that they are behind a solid object. You have to move them in front of the solid object or put them in paper space.

[SLW210]

As I stated, they are not on the same plane, so they need moved in Model Space to the same plane or put the text, splines and arrows into Paper Space.

 

As shown in Cad64's image, they are far from each other. Going to 2D wireframe just keeps the solid from blocking the arrows.

[BIGAL]

I am not sure what is going on but the wall is 228857.5161, 4782.2889, 405826.9786 at a extreme Z value is it because its mm ? 

 

Any way a simple trick sometimes is to use ELEV and make sure object has a higher Z than other objects. I used 500,000

 

[JimB]

Bigal... thanks for your response.
Its a situation where I would have thought bringing something forward as simple as an arrow was an immediate 'action' (forward or on top) but it isn't. In such a situation.

Particularly if working 3d. The variable to do so in my opinion should be a simple solution. 
What i do is flatten the text and arrows so they fall back to the base of the Z ... so that when in layout I can do perspectives with out them obstructing the drawing. It works well and is fast and simple. But the only solution is to put them in paper space, to avoid the obstructions. As soon as you do that your restrained from moving your 3d drawing cos you'll have to then come back into paper space to readjust all your text and arrows etc.  Its a messy situation.

Ideally Acad should incorporate an option where from 'model' you can bring 'anything' forward or back but that action will only at your choice impact the layout or model space. ...

Why they've not done it I don't know ... and I'm really surprised no one has written and add on to overcome this restraint. The time wasted in depositing text and arrows in layout is frustrating and restraining. Working in the model is faster then having to work on both model and layout anyway ... appreciated your input.

The main drive in sourcing a solution was I just couldn't believe no one hadn't  come with a solution to a common problem so obstructive to working in 3d...?

Beyond my own skill set to do so I would.

 

[SLW210]

The solution is to do annotation in paper space, that's how it's designed---all of the model in model space (that's the reason it's called model space) and title blocks, annotations, dimensions, etc. in paper space layout. 

 

AutoCAD already accommodated those that wanted to use Model Space for annotation by creating  Annotative objects, text, etc. and  Annotative Scales so they showed correctly in viewports.

 

Not really a problem, most just properly set up the drawing in model space, like BIGAL shows by moving the elevation, etc. or as it was designed, do annotation in paper space.

[ReMark]

So, you want your text and 3D solid to both be in model space and the text to be readable no matter the view.  Is that it?

[JimB]

SLW210 and Remark.

I've overcome the problem by doing the necessary as couple above have 'advised'. layout/paper space. Its the only solution.

In answer to you guys 'yes' I always incorporate as much as possible inc. arrows and text in model space. There is a good reason for this.

In layout paper space I often emphasise a particular item or detail (blow it up) and that often includes an additional layout, shape (circle / square or maybe a cloud) blown up. 'within' the original layout ... say a perspective of the drawing/detail. If I do that you often have to move or reduce and move the drawing that is in model space in the layout ... and consequently move all your arrows text etc on the layout.

If its done in model space I don't need to move anything in the layout/paper space... were ever it goes all coordinates text and arrows go with it. It saves time and a lot of it.

Anyway that's the reason. And just thought there must be a solution out there to enable me to do that without having to manually highlight those items that are obstructed by t he drawing and bringing them to the front manually.

By flattening all the text, arrows and coordinates keeps my drawing neat, and using 'layers' I can access any 3d view and related coordinates text and details related to the view. And never have to worry about mucking around or changing or adjusting any of it, in paper space. Yes sometimes I have of use paper space Block tittles etc. and do but the bulk of text, arrows and coordinates I retain in model. Speed is the motivator for me doing this... maybe I've got wrong ...? but if your changing things around or adding additional layout windows to a layout I cant see a faster way of doing it. If there is let me know.

[JimB]

In answer to Remark... yer A way to do it without moving them off the flattened position. So they are viewable in paper space.

[SLW210]

Your drawing is not flattened for starters, hence, not on the same plane. Otherwise what you want will work.

 

I do everything you do, blow-ups and everything else and still use paper space annotation, I find it easier than if I had annotations I don't need in my blown-up area.

 

I get it, you like to work the way you work and that's fine for you, but now you see the error in that way, under certain circumstances, you just need to adjust when you hit a snag, that's all. 

 

I know several fields that still do everything in model space and it works fine for certain things, items on different planes isn't really one of them.

 

AutoCAD is working as intended and I doubt they will make a change to remedy this as you would want, but you never know. Try going and adding it to the wishlist at AUGI.

[JimB]

SLW210 thanks for your response, appreciate you taking time to do so. Yer you hit all on the head, period. The issue. Just sort of hoped someone may have had an add on or solution for it...  I'll give your link a go ! (wishlist...) you never know

 

[BIGAL]

CHSPACE ???