Would you ever not use 1:1 plot scale for a layout?

[Dana W]

On 10/3/2020 at 11:25 AM, Berzerker said:

I wouldn't think that steven-g! You guys have been great to me and I will keep saying it "Thank you" for all your help.

I was playing around with nukecad's drawing and the paperspace views. It's pretty cool to be able to click inside and move things around, then you can click outside and zoom in and check things out. I didn't know it would do that. I need to design a title block (?) that I like. I see there is no scale in nukecad's title block. Most drawings I seen when I was a machinist had the scale on them. Meaning if a dimension wasn't there you cold use a measuring scale and tell the length or size. If something is on a piece of paper at 1/2 scale and you measure it you just double whatever measurement you get/see.

Trouble is, there is no 1/2 scale in AutoCAD.  There is 1:2 or 6" = 1'-0".  The scales listed in AutoCAD have been used in industry as standard scales since measuring was invented, probably pre-dating AutoCAD by several hundred years, at least in the case of the Imperial system.  The ratios have been around since before the pyramids. 

 

The estimating department may measure a drawing, but that is why it's called estimating.  Fabricators and Tradesmen, especially machinists are usually told to never do that.

 

Picture a table with your 1:1 drawing or even the real 3D object sitting out on it.  Now take a 11x17 piece of poster board and cut a 8" square out of the middle of it.  Pick up the 11 x 17 poster board and hold it over your drawing/object so you can see it through the 8" square.  The table is modelspace.  The poster board or paper with a hole in it is a paperspace layout tab.  The 8" square is your viewport.  Now use your arms to move the poster board closer or further away from your face.  That would be scaling your viewport.

 

Once you have saved drawing1, even if you delete it, AutoCAD will never forget it unless you delete it from the Windows registry.  Subsequently every new drawing will be drawing2 or whatever the next number is. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Dana W

[Cad64]

1 hour ago, Berzerker said:

Cad64 says you can draw in "Drawing1" and not mess it up! I think where I got that from was I did mess up "Drawing1" one time. So if it can be broke in a program give it to me "I'll break it".

 

Drawing1 is actually the acad.dwt template file that loads at startup and when you perform a Save for the first time, the 'Save As' dialog opens and allows you to save as a .dwg file. So, the only way you could mess up Drawing1 is if you intentionally change the file type to .dwt and save as acad.dwt and overwrite the existing file. So, it is possible to mess up Drawing1, but you have to intentionally do it. It would be very difficult to do it accidentally.

 

But having said all that, I agree with saving the drawing to the project folder before you start drawing. I do that about 90% of the time. But there are times when I open a template file and start working and then save to the project folder after the fact. So, I just wanted to try and clear that up and let you know that it's not 'bad' to draw in Drawing 1. Just make sure you don't save the file as acad.dwt and overwrite the original.

[Dana W]

I've been known to use a previous drawing as a template then have a brain *art and SAVE it.  That can affect one's employment status if one does not have good backup discipline.

[nukecad]

1 hour ago, Berzerker said:

didn't want to mess things up by messing with something I didn't understand. If that makes sense.

It's often a good way learn new things - if only so you don't do it again or do it by mistake.

Edited October 4, 2020 by nukecad

[Dana W]

Cad64 was typing the deeper reason not to do it while I was typing the other reason.  I just went to look, and I am not sure the registry has much to do with it.

[nukecad]

BTW just reading back a few posts.

If you have Windows 10 you can set a delay on the snipping tool that allows you time to open dropdowns, pop-ups etc. before it freezes the screen so you can clip them

Edited October 4, 2020 by nukecad

[Berzerker]

58 minutes ago, Dana W said:

Picture a table with your 1:1 drawing or even the real 3D object sitting out on it.  Now take a 11x17 piece of poster board and cut a 8" square out of the middle of it.  Pick up the 11 x 17 poster board and hold it over your drawing/object so you can see it through the 8" square.  The table is modelspace.  The poster board or paper with a hole in it is a paperspace layout tab.  The 8" square is your viewport.  Now use your arms to move the poster board closer or further away from your face.  That would be scaling your viewport.

See there's that cut out thing again. But I think I'm catching on! If I have a big let's say door on a sheet of paper at full scale and I hold a square above it that is 8.250" x 10.750 about 2 ft. whatever I see in that view (through that square) gets printed (No matter scale). So you say cut that section out of the view to me it's well looking through a window with the paper right outside and someone is pulling it back and forth and that's me.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Berzerker

[Cad64]

19 minutes ago, Berzerker said:

See there's that cut out thing again. But I think I'm catching on! If I have a big let's say door on a sheet of paper at full scale and I hold a square above it that is 8.250" x 10.750 about 2 ft. whatever I see in that view (through that square) gets printed (No matter scale). So you say cut that section out of the view to me it's well looking through a window with the paper right outside and someone is pulling it back and forth and that's me.

 

Yes. Like I mentioned before, the viewport is a window into model space. I also used the analogy of a window in your house. So just think of paper space as being inside your house and model space is the outside world. If you want to see what's happening outside, just look through the window/viewport.

 

The best way for you to get the hang of it is to just start messing around with it. Create a viewport, double click inside the viewport boundary and zoom and pan around, change the viewport scale, do some test prints to pdf, etc.

[Dana W]

[tombu]

5 hours ago, Berzerker said:

Got quite a few questions on this. To start I open a drawing which will be drawing1 as always. Ok I get the border part about drawing a square a little smaller than the print area. But reading on the web it says: "Set the current layer to a layer that's reserved for layout viewports (recommended)." which ones are those? Or do I select a layer color I want and name it like "Layout"

Now I would go to page setup, select new, name it and change all the plot settings and click OK when done. Now save it as a .dwt in a folder or should I do this first. I always name a drawing first I never draw in drawing1, learnt that was bad a long time ago. Then you read on and it says just copy and paste your title block into it through the clipboard with the "Copy with base point" to paste it in the layout template.

 

That "drawing1" comes from a Template much like a New Word document. While "Acad.dwt" is the default you can set the "Default Template for QNEW" under "Template Settings" on the Files tab in options. Using New command instead of Qnew gives you the option of selecting a Template instead of the default. Having Templates set up with the Layers, Linetypes, Dimension Styles, Text Styles, Plot Styles, Table Styles, Blocks, etc… for whatever drawing you're creating saves a lot of time. When you "Save As" to Files of type: "AutoCAD Drawing Template" they're saved in a Template Folder for quick reference by the New command.

[ammobake]

I didn't want to step into this I knew you guys would get Berzerker squared away lol.

[Berzerker]

Yeah I basically got it. I haven't got around to putting into practice because I haven't printed anything in awhile except by accident when messing with this.

And I'll try it next time but you know the saying: "Old habits die hard".

I need to take some time and see if I can make my own from scratch, Haven't done that either.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Berzerker

[pattyandme]

a scaled drawing is equal or less then the size of the paper it's being plotted on or a pattern which can be taped or placed together to serve as a paper size of less than the scaled drawing such as a billboard sign where the full scale drawings are being used as a pattern for printing to scale. two examples