Would you ever not use 1:1 plot scale for a layout?

[Isaac98H]

Hello everyone, first time posting on this forum. I don't have a problem so much as a curiosity. When you go to page setup manager, one of the options on the following menu is plot scale. I always have this set to 1:1 when I plot. From what I understand, this should always be the case when plotting from a layout. I saw that when plotting directly from model space, you would change this scale since you don't have a viewport to determine your plot scale. My question is this: When would you ever set the plot scale to anything other than 1:1 when plotting from a layout? It seems like all your scaling would just be handled by the viewport. Thanks 

[Berzerker]

Yes to me there are reasons why you would set it to 1/4" scale, 1/2" scale. If your object is 6" X 6" and you want an end and side view on a drawing so someone can read and manufacture the part that's on the drawing you could place both them on the same 8.5" X 11" piece of paper at 1/2" scale. My old boss would print on 11" X 17" and put multiple objects on it at 1/8" scale.

Building sawmill equipment you can't print an whole gang or infeed on  8.5" X 11". They would be 12 to 20 ft. long. You can print a layout at a much smaller scale and get both on one piece of paper.

In architecture even though they use prints that are what 30" square you can't put a whole building on it so they scale it down to fit on the print.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Berzerker

[steven-g]

I have used that in the past to print smaller sheets of drawings. For example you have the layouts set tp print onto A0 or A1 paper but just for a quick reference at site meetings you need a zoomed out copy of all the drawings on A3 for some quick markups, rather than recreate the layouts for A3 then a layout scale is a quick work around.

But certainly never used as a 'standard' generally a layout should be 1:1

[eldon]

Perhaps Berzerker's comments are about plotting a layout rather than plotting from a layout.

 

Certainly, I would think that if you set up a particular sheet size to plot onto in a layout, you would always want the plot to be on that sheet size, i.e. plot at 1:1

 

Plotting from Model Space is a whole different frame of mind.

[BIGAL]

Like steven-g our title block is true A1 841x594 but the majority of plots were A3 so used 1=2 when plotting. The mview would be at 1/2 scale.

[SLW210]

I often plot to fit for many reasons. Every plot on the planet is not necessarily a title blocked drawing. Even then, some ask me to plot to 11x17 or most can only plot to 11x17, usually I set drawings up at Arch D, if I set Plot to Fit, they only need find the correct printer, some things I also set for default printer and I usually never hear from them to come help. If everything is set to correct titleblock and border size, it will still plot 1:1 on plot to fit and correct paper size or I can quickly change it anyway.

 

If somebody wants a certain section of a drawing, then a different scale or plot to fit and Window is needed. I could go on and on for reasons to plot at other than 1:1. Even now I am making fire exit floor plans, no need for a scale, need to get as much on a sheet as I can for visibility.

[RobDraw]

Reduced size plots are a thing around here. So, it's not uncommon to print a 24x36 sheet to 11x17 for example.

[Berzerker]

19 hours ago, eldon said:

Perhaps Berzerker's comments are about plotting a layout rather than plotting from a layout.

 Yeah I kinda don't understand the whole plotting thing real good. Some guy tried to explain it to me by saying it's like cutting a hole in the piece of paper. Never figured that part out!

If you cut a hole in the piece of paper there's nothing left to print on. I was taught or should I say told always draw your object at 1:1 scale. If it's 6" x 6", make it exactly that.

When I hear the word plot/print my mind goes to place/print/plot whatever is drawn on a piece of paper.

You posted "plotting a layout" and "plotting from a layout". 

To me "plotting a layout" would be plotting the whole layout to a single piece of paper.

And "plotting from a layout" would be only the part or parts you wanted plotted to a piece of paper from the layout.

Never understood the difference in "print" and "plot" (?)

A printer you can set on your desk, a plotter sits in the corner with wide pieces of paper and pens with color and a cutter when it's finished your usually not there when it does and you come back to find it on the floor.

As most who have posted with me know I taught myself everything I know about AutoCad. Yeah, I probably got several things wrong! I just now learned how to place different objects on different layers. 

I wasn't trying to mislead anyone or give wrong information. If I misunderstood the question, "I apologize".

Edited September 30, 2020 by Berzerker

[f700es]

3 hours ago, SLW210 said:

I often plot to fit for many reasons. Every plot on the planet is not necessarily a title blocked drawing. ....... Even now I am making fire exit floor plans, no need for a scale, need to get as much on a sheet as I can for visibility.

All of the University's (where I work) space floor plans are plot to fit on 11x17 paper and shared across a University shared Google drive folder. If some one needs a scaled drawing we just make one for them.

[BIGAL]

You have to remember when Autocad started like 40 years ago a plotter was the only device basically supported, with the arrival of printer support "PRINT" so these days the two commands are the same, old people like me type plot.

Edited September 30, 2020 by BIGAL

[nukecad]

Also remember that older Autocad versions (before rev.11) didn't have layouts/paperspace (with scalable viewports).
https://autodesk.blogs.com/between_the_lines/ACAD_R11.html

 

So before that if you wanted a drawing border then you had to drop an enlarged, (unless you were drawing small parts), version of the border into the modelspace to fit around your geometry and then plot to scale to fit it onto your paper.
Which you still need to do if you don't use layouts/viewports.

 

The difference is whether you do your scaling at the viewport stage in the layout then plot at 1:1, or do the scaling at the plotting stage from model space.

 

(And of course you will always find someone who does things differently for a particular reason).

Edited October 1, 2020 by nukecad

[Berzerker]

I only use model space. Never understood what the other two where there for.  They both turn your background white and one looks like a top view and the other a side view. One has a black border the other a yellow border. Other than knowing that "I never click on them".

Scale/scaling objects or scaling plots are also two different things to me. You scale an object in a drawing to make it half the size or quarter the size of what it was or whatever size you need.

Plot/print scale doesn't actually change the size of the objects as far as I'm aware of. To me if you pick for example 1/2 scale and you print an object a little longer than an actual 8.5" X 11" piece of paper it's like you doubled the size of the piece of paper. Yes the objects printed are half the size of a 1:1 scale but no dimensions or attributes change.

 

Kinda like zoom for printers.

[Cad64]

51 minutes ago, Berzerker said:

I only use model space. Never understood what the other two where there for.  They both turn your background white and one looks like a top view and the other a side view. One has a black border the other a yellow border. Other than knowing that "I never click on them".

 

I'm not sure if I gave you this link before. There's a lot of good information about layouts and printing.

https://www.mycadsite.com/tutorials/level_2/layout-tabs-plotting-autocad-paper-space-2-8.html

[BIGAL]

If your limited to 8.5x11 but want bigger  there is "Tile" lisp out there but much easier is use a layout with a mview set a rectang to sheet size less margins and a mview at correct scale 1:1 etc do a print then move the rectang and mview a 1/2 sheet to the other side, print get the sticky tape out and you have a bigger sheet. Once you set the print settings click on Apply this will reset the print area to black and you can print again as it remembers the settings.

[ammobake]

For me its a matter of sheet size of the layout compared to what you want to print and whether or not your print needs to be to scale.

If you have an 8.5x11 layout you can print 2:1 and you would get an 11x17 print size. 

If the 8.5x11 scale is 1/8" = 1, your 2:1 print scale would end up at 1/4" exactly (and can still be used for scaling purposes on the larger sheet size)

 

3:1 would get you a 22x34 (ansi-d) at 3/8" = 1', etc..

 

But other than for using the scaling ratios for this purpose I really don't mess with it.

 

-ChriS

 

[Berzerker]

So let me get this right. You all go through all that to print on a piece of paper. I think of it like being in MS Word or Notepad. When your ready to print is when you worry about it fitting on the paper. As I said you can't print a full size car at 1:1 on a piece of 8.5"x11" paper. In ammobake's examples you still have to set things up to get it to print like that. I always thought it was shorter and quicker to just isolate what you were going to print and change that one little number in the print scale section. Your in the print/plot command already! Changing one number from a 1 to a 2 does this for half scale or to a 4 for quarter scale.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Berzerker

[nukecad]

I'd read the link that Cad64 gave you about using viewports.

 

A quick explanation of using viewports in paperspace:

1. You draw whatever you are drawing in Model space, at full size. (A full size car, house, planet, or whatever it is).
2. You have your drawing border in paperspace, the same size as the particular paper size you want to use.
3. You put one or more viewports within the drawing border to 'view' the modelspace, setting the scale of the viewport to fit/view whatever is needed.
4. You plot the paperspace at 1:1 on the same size piece of paper as the border size. (or 'scale-to-fit' to fit it onto smaller paper sizes).

 

So everything is drawn actual size, the only scaling is done by the viewport. (Unless you also want to plot a large sheet size onto a smaller piece of paper).

Edited October 2, 2020 by nukecad

[Berzerker]

3 hours ago, nukecad said:

So everything is drawn actual size, the only scaling is done by the viewport. (Unless you also want to plot a large sheet size onto a smaller piece of paper).

So you can set different views and scales up in paperspace?

[Cad64]

15 minutes ago, Berzerker said:

So you can set different views and scales up in paperspace?

 

Yes, you can create several viewports for different views and scales. This is very useful for 3D models when you want to show the side, top and 3/4 view. Just set up some viewports. You can also set the shademode in each viewport, in case you want one to be wireframe or conceptual or realistic or whatever.

 

Here's your speaker set up with the top and side view at 1:2 scale and a 3/4 view at 1:1 scale on an 11x17 sheet.

[Berzerker]

But aren't those viewports not paper space views? I know you can set up viewports in model space.

I can set three view in my window:

 

 

But if I click on paper I get this. It's not three different views, it's one and I'd need to set scale.

And it's the same view no matter what viewport I click on and click paperspace.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Berzerker