PDF/ JPG file conversion threat.

[nidhi singhania]

Say, I have designed a room and have converted it to PDF or JPG and then have sent it to my client.

Is it possible for him to re- convert it to a dwg. file and edit it or misuse my work in AutoCad or any other drafting software!!

1) If yes, then how can I prevent this from happening?

2) If, I need to share the dwg. file, then how can I prevent someone to make any change/copy paste from my work!

[Cad64]

Yes, there is software that can convert pdf's into CAD drawings. Even Autocad 2017 and above can do this.

 

This discussion may be of interest: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-forum/prevent-a-pdf-from-being-converted-to-dwg/td-p/6758822

[steven-g]

If you distrust your clients so much then maybe it is time to look for new clients, or look at better contractual agreements.

[nidhi singhania]

3 hours ago, steven-g said:

If you distrust your clients so much then maybe it is time to look for new clients, or look at better contractual agreements.

It is not about trusting or distrusting your clients. Rather, it's all about my past experiences and when works are in sub-let form, can't trust anyone blindly.

Also, I don't know, how things work there, but in India, not everything is on contractual basis.

So it's better to be safe than sorry, is what I choose.

[SLW210]

If there are any relevant dimensions, it can always be recreated. Before computers this was a problem as well, nothing new.

 

A solid written agreement for non-duplication, etc. is the best measure, as stated by steven-g. Other than that, just make it as difficult as possible.

 

I thought there was a discussion here on CADTutor, I'll have to check.

[steven-g]

Oh it's not just India. The world is built on people not wanting to pay for what they have asked, and yes even with solid contracts they get away with it. Unfortunately there is not a lot you can do about it, other than at least try to be selective about who you work for. Start with small values of work and always expect the last payment you got to be the last one you will get. There are no foolproof ways to stop someone copying your work.

[ammobake]

I had concerns about this with a previous employer (protecting itellectual property) but they never took me seriously.

Our client (US govt) eventually stole my templates, title blocks, etc...

And is still using it for their own purposes today, 12 years later on the same military installation.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about this.  But since I was their employee it was their property in that case (not mine).

 

There are ways that you can protect PDF files and prevent duplication.

 

But the PDF to DWG conversion can still occur if you are using a PDF created directly from autocad with linework, layers, etc..

 

One trick would be to print the PDF to a high quailty raster PDF - which basically gives you something that cannot be converted.

It may also be possible to customize the pst file in Autocad to make a raster PDF the default output method.

 

But from what I understand you have to print from model space to make it work consistently.

There's some kind of issue with this method printing from paper space.

 

I guess technically, if someone wanted to steel your work bad enough they could just trace it.

 

But if you value your intellectual property there's nothing wrong with taking measures to prevent your work being copied easily.

One very simple method is to put a statement on your drawings somewhere that it is not to be duplicated without your consent.

At that point, if someone does copy your drawings for their purposes you can have some legal ground to stand on (at least here in the US).

Not sure about India.

From my experience, more often than not, what people want to steel is content that can be used over and over.

Like a drawing template, a titleblock, etc.

Which might seem innocent - but it's actually worse in many ways.

 

-ChriS

Edited June 19, 2020 by ammobake

[Cad64]

I worked for a machine shop many years ago that stole another companies design, and not by converting a pdf or tracing but by reverse engineering the actual part. They took measurements and drafted up their own CAD drawings and started producing the part as if it was their own design. They ended up getting into a lot of legal trouble when the other company found out. There was a lengthy court battle and eventually the other company won, but it cost both sides a ton of money in lawyer fees, court costs, etc.

 

So yeah, you can try to protect your designs, but if someone wants it badly enough, they will do whatever it takes to get it. And if you want to sue them, you better hope you have deeper pockets than they do because it's going to be expensive to take them to court.

[lrm]

"Our client (US govt) eventually stole my templates, title blocks, etc..."

 

If I paid a company for CAD drawings I would expect that I would own the title block that came with the drawings unless there was an agreement between the companies (the US gov't being one of them) to the contrary.  A unique graphic design could be copyrighted but I don't think that covers your concern.

[nukecad]

We regularly used to convert legacy drawings from PDF, and scanned raster formats, back into vector DWGS.
Legally of course, they were the clients old drawings and their intelectual property.

 

Some could be done easily with software, (Wiseimage for Autocad, PDF Fly, etc.).
Sometimes you would need to use one and then the other to get to the Dwg. (eg. Convert PDF to raster, convert raster to dwg, clean up).
Other files took more work and maybe some redrawing.

As said by the others you can always copy something, it just depends how much work you are prepared to put into doing it.

 

If you dont want your design 'stolen' by a client then you could agree/contract from the start that the design will become their property once they have paid your fee. (A higher fee of course).

That still won't stop the unscrupulous if they don't want to pay.

Edited June 19, 2020 by nukecad

[nidhi singhania]

8 hours ago, steven-g said:

Oh it's not just India. The world is built on people not wanting to pay for what they have asked, and yes even with solid contracts they get away with it. Unfortunately there is not a lot you can do about it, other than at least try to be selective about who you work for. Start with small values of work and always expect the last payment you got to be the last one you will get. There are no foolproof ways to stop someone copying your work.

Agreed...

[nidhi singhania]

2 hours ago, ammobake said:

I had concerns about this with a previous employer (protecting itellectual property) but they never took me seriously.

Our client (US govt) eventually stole my templates, title blocks, etc...

And is still using it for their own purposes today, 12 years later on the same military installation.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about this.  But since I was their employee it was their property in that case (not mine).

 

There are ways that you can protect PDF files and prevent duplication.

 

But the PDF to DWG conversion can still occur if you are using a PDF created directly from autocad with linework, layers, etc..

 

One trick would be to print the PDF to a high quailty raster PDF - which basically gives you something that cannot be converted.

It may also be possible to customize the pst file in Autocad to make a raster PDF the default output method.

 

But from what I understand you have to print from model space to make it work consistently.

There's some kind of issue with this method printing from paper space.

 

I guess technically, if someone wanted to steel your work bad enough they could just trace it.

 

But if you value your intellectual property there's nothing wrong with taking measures to prevent your work being copied easily.

One very simple method is to put a statement on your drawings somewhere that it is not to be duplicated without your consent.

At that point, if someone does copy your drawings for their purposes you can have some legal ground to stand on (at least here in the US).

Not sure about India.

From my experience, more often than not, what people want to steel is content that can be used over and over.

Like a drawing template, a titleblock, etc.

Which might seem innocent - but it's actually worse in many ways.

 

-ChriS

Exactly...

Same thing has happened with me multiple times, in jobs as well as in Freelance work.

And I am preety sure, that was not the last time..

People tactically make u, to create designs, of say a bedroom in 2 or 3 options and then use it in different project of theirs with slight tweaking.

 

Well, nothing really helps with a sentence on the paper or a contract per say. I have even faced situations where people have said on my face, 'Go ahead, file a case. Let's fight in court for years'

And trust me, I have much more productive work to do, rather than waste my time dealing/fighting with people of that sort.

Tracing is an option, but people who like to steal, don't really have the guts to invest their time, required to trace something, their mentality is to just steal in seconds and make huge profits out of it.

Do you have any link/tutorial to the 2 methods you suggested for the prevention!! If yes, then kindly share it. It will give me a better idea.

Thank you

[nidhi singhania]

2 hours ago, nukecad said:

We regularly used to convert legacy drawings from PDF, and scanned raster formats, back into vector DWGS.
Legally of course, they were the clients old drawings and their intelectual property.

 

Some could be done easily with software, (Wiseimage for Autocad, PDF Fly, etc.).
Sometimes you would need to use one and then the other to get to the Dwg. (eg. Convert PDF to raster, convert raster to dwg, clean up).
Other files took more work and maybe some redrawing.

As said by the others you can always copy something, it just depends how much work you are prepared to put into doing it.

 

If you dont want your design 'stolen' by a client then you could agree/contract from the start that the design will become their property once they have paid your fee. (A higher fee of course).

That still won't stop the unscrupulous if they don't want to pay.

It is not just about the pay, always.

It's about feeling cheated. It's about feeling, that something which you have created, is being sold by someone else in their name.

To say frankly, higher pay!! Really!!

There is so much competition in market, that many a times, people hire a Designer by looking at their Service Rate structure, rather than their work.

So majority of the times, we are forced to freelance in an extremely competitive rates.

All higher fees etc, goes out of the window. That is , if you want a continuous inflow of work.

Edited June 19, 2020 by nidhi singhania

[nidhi singhania]

3 hours ago, ammobake said:

I had concerns about this with a previous employer (protecting itellectual property) but they never took me seriously.

Our client (US govt) eventually stole my templates, title blocks, etc...

And is still using it for their own purposes today, 12 years later on the same military installation.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about this.  But since I was their employee it was their property in that case (not mine).

 

There are ways that you can protect PDF files and prevent duplication.

 

But the PDF to DWG conversion can still occur if you are using a PDF created directly from autocad with linework, layers, etc..

 

One trick would be to print the PDF to a high quailty raster PDF - which basically gives you something that cannot be converted.

It may also be possible to customize the pst file in Autocad to make a raster PDF the default output method.

 

But from what I understand you have to print from model space to make it work consistently.

There's some kind of issue with this method printing from paper space.

 

I guess technically, if someone wanted to steel your work bad enough they could just trace it.

 

But if you value your intellectual property there's nothing wrong with taking measures to prevent your work being copied easily.

One very simple method is to put a statement on your drawings somewhere that it is not to be duplicated without your consent.

At that point, if someone does copy your drawings for their purposes you can have some legal ground to stand on (at least here in the US).

Not sure about India.

From my experience, more often than not, what people want to steel is content that can be used over and over.

Like a drawing template, a titleblock, etc.

Which might seem innocent - but it's actually worse in many ways.

 

-ChriS

You know, once in my office, we got few PDF files, which after permission we converted to Cad, but then, it was all sort of exploded, in a way, that you will have to create the entire thing from scratch.

Like if a particular block, had Gradient, then the Gradient was exploded too, in tiny triangles. If there was a small TV unit, then it was exploded in  thousands of tiny tiny lines, which looked preety funny.

Basically, you can't use it, the way it is. You will have to invest your time to make it printable.

Atleast, that way, I will be a little satisfied, that the other person didn't get my designs or concepts for free without investing anything in it.

[nidhi singhania]

Since, now, I am planning to work as a Freelancer, full time. I am sure things like this will happen much more now.

So, thought, if any of you with much more experience in AutoCad, have cracked a solution to this problem.

Edited June 19, 2020 by nidhi singhania

[nidhi singhania]

19 hours ago, Cad64 said:

Yes, there is software that can convert pdf's into CAD drawings. Even Autocad 2017 and above can do this.

 

This discussion may be of interest: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-forum/prevent-a-pdf-from-being-converted-to-dwg/td-p/6758822

Thank you for the link... Went though the discussion.

Does this actually work!! I have my doubts.

[Cad64]

20 minutes ago, nidhi singhania said:

Does this actually work!! I have my doubts.

 

I haven't tried it, but like I mentioned before, if someone wants to steal your design, they will convert it or trace it or reverse engineer it, and there's not a lot you can do about it unless you want to waste a lot of time and money fighting them in court. Just try to find honest companies to work with. I know that's easier said than done though. These days everyone wants something for nothing.

[nidhi singhania]

17 minutes ago, Cad64 said:

 

I haven't tried it, but like I mentioned before, if someone wants to steal your design, they will convert it or trace it or reverse engineer it, and there's not a lot you can do about it unless you want to waste a lot of time and money fighting them in court. Just try to find honest companies to work with. I know that's easier said than done though. These days everyone wants something for nothing.

True...

Then, should I settle with this only!!

Let's see, what's others have to suggest.

[steven-g]

There are no other suggestions, AutoCAD is designed as a collaborative software. If you are involved in the design of products it doesn't matter what you do to try and protect your designs it isn't fool proof. Just take a look at any object around you or picture in a magazine. I don't need to contact the designer to get the drawings if I want to copy it I will look for the easiest method that I can get away with. If someone is intent on not paying you then they won't pay. A contract is not just there to show in a court case at the ends of months of fighting, it is there at the initial start of a project to also see how a client reacts to it if they start by being difficult when you suggest a contract, even a simple one , then it should give you an idea of the type of people they are. Which are you more worried about not getting work because you approach it professionally or not getting work because you don't want to ask difficult questions.

[maratovich]

On 6/19/2020 at 2:59 AM, nidhi singhania said:

Say, I have designed a room and have converted it to PDF or JPG and then have sent it to my client.

 

 

Check this out: https://www.sfcontent.com/en/
There are all options for protecting PDF, there is a trial period