Is it possible to scale up Annotaive Dimensions

[kashbg]

When setting up new drawing and using the predefined "Standard" dimension style, the dimensions usually show up in model space very tiny. In Dimstyle, under the Fit tab, if I modify "Use of overall scale of" to lets say 250 instead of 1, then I get the dimensions showing larger and proportionate (arrows, gaps, etc) for the model space drawing.

 

Is it possible to have the same flexibility to do the same for Annotative Dimensions, which would scale up the available preset "Annotative" to show generally larger in paper space.

I just want to avoid every time altering the settings for the Annotative Dimensions to lets say text in paper 2mm, arrow ..., etc.

[Dana W]

Your second paragraph leads me to believe you are missing the point of annotative objects and what they do.

 

There is not enough room here to go over all there is to annotative dimensioning, so you will have to do some research too. The following is a simplified summary.

 

You assign new scales to the annotative dimensions in an entirely different way than you do the non-annotative dimensions. I will also say that it is a rather steep learning curve for a bit, and then it just hits you.

 

You cannot assign an overall scale to annotative dimensions. Once you click the Annotative box, the option is made unavailable because it will defeat the entire purpose. Annotative scaling is AUTOMATIC overall scaling.

 

The whole purpose for annotative scaling is so you only need ONE dimension style, period unless you want different arrowheads, or units, or something in another style.

 

Annotative scaling is - assign an annotative scale to a dimension, or any other annotative object and it will only appear in a viewport when the viewport is set to that particular scale, and by assigning more than one annotative scale to an annotative object, they will be seen in multiple viewports set to different scales. The beauty is, in the style manager, build your annotative object to the actual physical size you want it to appear on paper. Then, when the dimensions appear in a viewport, they will be that size. Lets say 1/8" text goes into the dimension style, then the dimension text will plot out at 1/8" high in any viewport, at any scale, as long as that scale is one assigned to your annotative dimension.

 

Did you know you can change the view scale in modelspace to see how your annotative items look at that scale? In other words you can simulate your viewport scale in model space. There is (or should be) a button on the task bar for view scale. If it is not there, click the Task Bar Options button, three gray bars, at the far right of the task bar, and click Annotation Scale. That is also where you will find AutoScale. There is another one for annotation visibility in modelspace.

 

Also, using annotative dimensions allows you to place them in different positions at different scales. lets say, in one viewport, at 1/8" = 1'-0", an Mleader may be so big that it covers up part of your model linework. You can toggle to modelspace through the viewport and shift it over a bit so it looks better. (or simply change the modelspace view scale and move it in modelspace) This WILL NOT affect the position of the same Mleader in any other view at a different scale.

 

You can have as many scales assigned to one annotative item as you need, all at the same time.

 

You can change or add annotative scales to dimensions and text in a number of ways.

 

One way is to simply select them, and change their object property for annotative scale. Another way is to turn on the toggle for automatically adding new annotative scales to them whenever the view scale changes. In other words, let AutoCad do it.

 

A third way is to select them and right click, then click on Annotative Object Scale, Add Current Scale, or Add/Delete Scales.

 

Of course, you can get the same result by simply putting your dimensions, text and mleaders in paperspace, but you can't immediately see if your dimension associativity works unless you make your mods in the active viewport rather than modelspace.

 

OK, tired of typing. sleepy.

[kashbg]

Thanks for your contribution and providing this brief annotative objects theory overview, which I am sure many would find quite educating, including me.

I feel, I may not have been quite clear with the way I asked my question but anyway thanks for your contribution.

I take it you can not retain automatically the ratios of preset settings and parameters within a given (non-annotative) dimension style (text height 0.18mm), when used as a basis to create a new annotative style with lets say a target of 2.5mm paper text height and every other parameter to be in ratio, proportionate and automatically scaled to represent its original non-annotative origin of a style. Off-course, there is always the manual set up available.

Regards,

[ReMark]

There is a scaling option in the dimension styles dialog window if you really feel it is necessary to complicate things more than is necessary. My suggestion would be to either learn everything you can about annotative scaling as it pertains to text and dimensions or place both those entities in the layout and not in model space and avoid the hassle altogether. Your current methodology is flawed.

[RobDraw]

It sounds like you are doing this backwards. You need to determine the desired size in paper space and set up your dimension and text styles to suit. Then determine the scale you will be using for the viewport, set the annotation scale to match, and start drawing.

[kashbg]

Thank you all for your contribution and advise. Undoubtedly, my path of learning would put me in the position to wonder about something and ask a question that would actually seem quite unnecessary to worry about (as is the case here).

I take away from your input that I must spend more time studying this subject, which I admit I must do.

 

ReMark, you say "There is a scaling option in the dimension styles dialog window if you really feel it is necessary to complicate things more than is necessary." Did you mean in the dimension style dialog window after you click the "Annotative" tick box.

 

Regards,

[Ski_Me]

It sounds like you are doing this backwards. You need to determine the desired size in paper space and set up your dimension and text styles to suit. Then determine the scale you will be using for the viewport, set the annotation scale to match, and start drawing.

Your anno scale and your viewport do not need to match. I don't know if there is a command for this but I use this trick all the time and it works just fine for me. I use and large number of blocks in my drawings to indicate pattern coverage for fire alarm devices so using text to ID all the devices is needed but I have to place all this in model space. For the most part placing these blocks in model space with an 1/8th scale works just fine. But every now and then I need to a bigger scale because the building is bigger and I need more room to show everything. Problem is I would have to create a bunch of other blocks to account for a different scale. The solution for me was to adjust my viewport scale to the bigger scale and keep my anno scale at 1/8th. Not the same as scaling annotative objects like you think but in away they are being scaled.

[ReMark]

So in other words when printed it is possible that not all your text is the same uniform height. Is that correct?

[RobDraw]

In my world, text and symbolic blocks need to be the same size in paper space. Blocks can be annotative just like text. What Ski_Me is describing would be considered bad CAD and unacceptable. YMMV, depending on your standards.

[Ski_Me]

So in other words when printed it is possible that not all your text is the same uniform height. Is that correct?

Are you asking me or the OP?

[ReMark]

Oh, I am definitively asking you.

[Ski_Me]

For the purpose of demonstration this difference in scale is a bit extreme but I wanted to show that if you select a different scale for your annotative objects than your viewport you can still see your annotative objects without having to add new scales. I maintain the same annotative scale for all my objects because all of my annotative objects are nested within blocks so I just use 1 scale for all my drawings. As you can see if you adjust the viewport scale to match the annotative scale to 1/64th then the text becomes to small to see but if the annotative scale is set to 1/8th and the viewport is set to 1/64th the text scales to 1/8th paper space instead of 1/64th. I didn't go to page set up to adjust the paper size but if you want play with that as well. For me this works really well, I don't have to mess with different annotation scales and it stream lines my work.

SAMPLE.dwg

[ReMark]

So basically my assumption was correct. Some companies might have a problem with that approach if they insist on standard text/dimension heights for all their drawings. We avoid the problem by placing all text and dimensions in the layout and not in model space. But...each to his own.

[kashbg]

Thank you Ski_Me, this is a very interesting work around.

 

Alternatively it is always the manual set up of parameters in the Annotative DimStyle Dialog box.

 

Guys, is there an acknowledged standard of parameters or template in (mm) of common Annotative Dimensions Settings that would be relevant to A4, A3, A1 formats.

[ReMark]

I suppose that would depend on the country you live/work in primarily. Where do you live?

[RobDraw]

Thank you Ski_Me, this is a very interesting work around.

 

I wouldn't even consider it a work around in a proper drafting environment. It is counterintuitive to what annotative scaling is for. In a way, the workaround breaks the functionality of it. Remember, annotative scaling is Autodesk's solution for consistent sizes in paper space. If you want different sizes in paper space, you should use different styles.

[kashbg]

I suppose that would depend on the country you live/work in primarily. Where do you live?

 

I live in UK, the former EU member.

We use primarily Architectural units (mm) as opposed to Imperial.

[Ski_Me]

I wouldn't even consider it a work around in a proper drafting environment. It is counterintuitive to what annotative scaling is for. In a way, the workaround breaks the functionality of it. Remember, annotative scaling is Autodesk's solution for consistent sizes in paper space. If you want different sizes in paper space, you should use different styles.

RobDraw is correct this is not really a workaround it's just applying a different method. I'm not sure what is meant by breaking functionality since AutoCAD allows you to use a annotative scale that's different from the viewport scale. Why would they include a sync function if you couldn't do this. I'm not sure about everybody else on what they do but I know that I have to produce my drawings from work that other people have done which means that if they are using some bizarre crazy scale I need to use the same scale. I'm not going to go through the trouble of creating a whole set of styles and blocks just for a few drawings that I will never use again. Call it bad cad if you like but I found a way that works and works well. Now if you could please direct me to where Autodesk said that annotative scaling is for consistent sizes in paper space I would like to tell them that they are wrong.

[RobDraw]

You live in a different drafting world, Ski_Me.

 

Annotative scaling was introduced as an better way to make sure things appear in paper space at the same scale without having to create multiple styles and/or symbolic blocks. I know this from when it was first introduced. You can do the research if you would like to complain to Autodesk, but I'm not doing it for you. A lot of people learn to use things in a different manner than was intended. If it works for your world, I'm not going to fault you for it. I work with a different, more universal, and stringent, set of rules.

[Ski_Me]

Clearly you do work from a different set of standards than I do. My situation is unique in that producing drawings is a big part of what I do but it's not the only thing I do. AutoCAD is one of many tools I use in my tool box to get my job done. I do wish that all I had to do is design work but my skills as a tech out weighs the need for me to be at a workstation everyday of the week to being out in the field trouble shooting and installing systems. But I wouldn't trade my position for anything in the world right now, nobody else that works in the same field as me in this state can do what I do. And I do it well. I don't really want to complain to Autodesk about anything really I know the intent was exactly what you said they first came out with it, but I'm sure they realize that people like me would find another way to apply it so it fits their needs.