Basic Conduit Drawing in Revit

[Epicurwin]

I'm new to Revit and have just started drawing electrical stuff, I've been doing plumbing for years. I find drawing conduit in Revit very obtuse. I was wondering if there is anyone out there that can give me some advice on some issues I've been having.

 

Is there any way to draw vertical pipe without changing the offset while drawing horizontal pipe? There are a few cases where it is easier to draw starting with the vertical run because that is the fixed point.

 

For some reason I'm having difficulty getting conduit to auto-route with vertical pipe connecting to horizontal pipe. I'm not sure what the issue is here.

 

I use the trim/extents to corner to connect horizontal conduit sometimes but I can't seem to do this with a horizontal conduit and a vertical conduit.

 

I've also had problem selecting snaps sometimes when I was trying to move one vertical conduit on-top of another when I thought I might have to replace the A&E's conduit. Sometimes I couldn't get the snaps to work, other times I just found them very hard to see. Where can i change the visual of the snaps?

[tzframpton]

First thing is first: In Revit you do not do things as you normally would in AutoCAD. When running Conduit in Revit you have to first understand how Revit likes things done. You will want to become familiar with working in Section Views, especially for more complicated routing of conduits, ducts and pipes. A lot of times I won't even work about a vertical run, and will come back and place my vertical runs last, then use the Align tool to get the horizontal runs in the place I need them, then connect them later. I will say that of all the Systems, conduit is the easiest and most intuitive.

 

Steve Stafford has a lot of good Conduit quick-tutorials on his blog, in which you can isolate in a Google search:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=conduit%20site%3Arevitoped.blogspot.com

 

See if any one of those articles help you with Conduit run issues.

[Epicurwin]

Thanks, I've been looking at a few.

 

Another issue I had is aligning conduit. It seems that the conduit has rotation that will cause the conduit to align by spinning it 90 degrees from its original location rather than simple aligning the x or y axis. I fixed this by rotating the vertical pipe 90 degrees, but I came into an issue with one conduit that seems to be rotated 90+some random number degrees. Can I set a objects rotation to be 0 or default?

 

EDIT: I was able to solve it by drawing new conduit from the vertical and filleting the two horizontal lines.

 

EDit 2: I think I need to align more specifically, end point to center.

[tzframpton]

Are you aligning conduit to or from a transverse conduit object? If so, the Align tool usually doesn't pick up the centerpoint of the conduit piping. I never rotate conduits, but definitely rotate conduit fittings from time to time, although it's rare.

 

Either way, you'll just have to dive in, see what works, and test new and different routing techniques. It'll become much more fluid and easier the more you familiarize yourself with Revit.

[hertz hound]

Thanks for the links Tanner.

 

I have been giving Revit a more serious go in the last two months. Spending two hours a day. Baby steps. It is starting to sink in. I do see now how AMEP has learned a lot from Revit, just like you always said.

 

There is one thing though that Revit could learn from AMEP, that is conduit routing. I have not spent that much time on it because I thought that should be the least of my troubles. But from what I have tried it is horrible compared to AMEP. I am sure it will get easier when I get into it. It is going to have to, since that is what I would spend most of my time on. I miss the compass most, and being able to change planes with it.

 

I should be done with the one book this weekend. Then on to Paul Aubin's book.

[tzframpton]

It's horrible because it's different.... it's not really horrible, once you know HOW Revit wants you to do it. I will say that "modeling" duct/pipe/conduit in AMEP is superior, because AutoCAD is a drafting tool first. One thing I really miss from AMEP is the parallel routing feature.... OH MY GOODNESS how I miss that feature. But the Revit experience overall is so unbelievably satisfying and efficient, there's simply no way I can every even think of going back to AMEP. You couldn't pay me enough money to go back and I'm not kidding.

 

There are pros/cons with each. You'll find them for yourself but you'll be okay with it once Revit sinks in.

 

BTW.... how's that weather up there? Yikes!

 

-TZ

[hertz hound]

It has been cold. Single digits to low twentys. We haven't had all the snow like Massachusetts. The snow we did get has not melted in weeks. I need a 3D coordination job to get me inside!

 

I think we did not get a nice two year project that that they were bidding/negotiating for a year. I get the feeling something is coming up. They wanted me to get prices for Revit and BIM360 field from our re-seller.

 

All my time is in the field now. 20 hours out of 40 is outdoors. The last two coordination jobs got swept under the carpet. I guess the GC was not set up for it. The mechanical contractor did their end. They were not big conduit jobs. Probably only two weeks apiece behind a desk for me.

[Epicurwin]

Now that I am doing a Project in Revit I feel like I'm learning stuff 10 times faster. I really think jumping in is a big help. Some stuff still seems backwards to me, but I'm getting around it. I think that fact that I'm editing someone else's file is complicating things because I have to deal with another individual's drafting style. I think the thing about Revit is that even if it takes twice as long to draft something the time saved with revisions and notes, page setups and collaboration makes up for it. Makes me think that one day everything will be edited live like a voxel video game. Maybe they should add zombies and sheep.

[tzframpton]

Now that I am doing a Project in Revit I feel like I'm learning stuff 10 times faster. I really think jumping in is a big help. Some stuff still seems backwards to me, but I'm getting around it.

Jumping in is key to success because it requires you to figure things out. Things will seem backwards... just push through it. Some things you'll realize it's not backwards, it's actually better/easier. Other things you'll realize it really is backwards.

 

I think that fact that I'm editing someone else's file is complicating things because I have to deal with another individual's drafting style.

Editing someone else's file is always cumbersome. Literally.... always. Always best to bring into your own Template and replace Loadable Families with your own library. Not only that, but dealing with other company's Shared Parameter File is never fun.

 

I think the thing about Revit is that even if it takes twice as long to draft something the time saved with revisions and notes, page setups and collaboration makes up for it.

Yes sir... that's the mentality to have in the beginning. After you become familiar and more efficient with Revit, then you'll be twice as fast in the drafting (I like to call it Modeling rather than Drafting, but I know you mean the same thing) plus still have all the benefits of revisions/notes/page setups/collaboration/bidirectional associativity/etc.

[Epicurwin]

Rather than making several different threads I'm just going to use this as my general what the hell revit questions. If this isn't okay just let me know.

 

We put in a few UG conduits into the model in some new design options sets and asked the engineer to put them into the main model. He came back saying, "We typically don’t model in conduits that are below 2”.

I would add the other two design options as part of your fabrication plans." This confused me a bit. The only section in sheets is named "E" which we have been using to add sheets for our new conduit in the UG. I'm getting the impression that the engineer does not want us to add our small conduit into the main model.

I might add it in anyway depending on what my boss wants for coordination purposes, but if we end up not putting them into the main model where should they go? Is there a way to model them so they show up in our sheets but wont be seen in coordination? Should we be adding a new section to the sheets for the contractor's drawings? If so, how?

[tzframpton]

Best thing to do is utilize Worksets. Name a Workset accordingly to distinguish it from all the others. Naming isn't important, however treat it with some type of standard to relates to the content that will go on the Workset. Now the trick is this, once you've created the Workset, uncheck the box under "Visible in all views". Now anything that is placed on the Workset will always be hidden, however you can override this in any work view you're in by going to V/G > Worksets and setting the Visibility Setting to "Show".

 

It's a great way to isolate certain design options or areas of the model, without it interfering with the rest of the model. Alternatively, you can go to the Manage Ribbon > Design Options and use this feature, although I will admit it's a bit more cumbersome and not as straight forward. Design Options can definitely be used, and in fact it probably should, but sometimes a simple Workset is just much more straight forward and easy, especially for the MEP realm. Design Option tools are more fit for Architectural and Structural components in my experience.

[Epicurwin]

We ended up making a workset for the new conduits, but were leaving it as "Visible in all views" because everyone on the project save Engineer want the smaller conduit in the model for coordination.

 

If I set our new workset to current and edit existing conduit that we want to remain in the old workset will it switch worksets? When I go to the existing conduit should I switch what workset I have a current?

[tzframpton]

If you edit things in a manner that doesn't create new objects, they will remain on their respective Workset, such as move or stretch. Soon as something becomes "new" it'll take on the Current Workset, in which you can select and change in Properties.

 

Alternatively, this is an often overlooked but very powerful setting when bouncing between Worksets, the "Gray Inactive Workset" feature:

http://revitoped.blogspot.com/2014/12/gray-inactive-worksets.html

[Epicurwin]

Sounds like I should be careful when adding bends to existing conduit then.

[tzframpton]

Yes. But it's not the end of the world. I get to going so fast sometimes I do it all the time. We usually export everything out to Navisworks anyways, so we have 3D Views organized with all Links and Worksets turned off, other than the discipline or phase we need, so it's easy to spot because things will be randomly invisible.

 

A well organized Project Browser is the key to things like Worksets, Phases, Design Options, etc.

[Epicurwin]

While were talking about different worksets I created two for conduit, one for underground another for overhead so another person could work with me. When we need a connection with the two different worksets will the conduit join automatically?

[tzframpton]

First off, you don't need multiple Worksets "per person". I'd get out of this habit right away. Anybody can work on the same Workset, no problems at all. You're doing what I was afraid you may start doing and that's treating Worksets like AutoCAD Layers, which is not what you want to do.

 

To answer your direction inquiry, yes, when you tie into an existing conduit it'll place the entire joined conduit on the current Workset, in which you then simply can select the Conduit and place it on the other Workset. Alternatively, you can use the Split Element tool to create a Union at any point in the Conduit run, and place each Conduits on their respective Workset.

[Epicurwin]

Ok, so ad-hoc borrowing? When person A is the owner (first person to edit in a workset) and person B starts making edits or starts new conduit the changes become B. The changes don't show in the model until B sinks with the central, however Revit will transmit ownership without sinking. If A were to try to edit something that B has changed A wouldn't be allowed to. That is my understanding from a very quick google search.

 

If A needed access to B's work would B need to "Relinquish All Mine?" Or would this send and editing request?

[tzframpton]

Yes, ad-hoc borrowing of any element is certainly doable, but only an element that isn't currently being borrowed. Refer to the icon below... this is a ceiling diffuser that's selected, notice the three-cube icon that I've highlighted in red? This means it's currently not being borrowed by you.

 

If you click that icon, you now have taken ownership of it and nobody else can touch it unless you do two things: Sync to Central using the "Modify Settings" option and enabling the "Borrowed Elements" checkbox under the relinquish area of the Sync with Central dialog, or simply use the Relinquish All Mine under the Collaborate Ribbon > Synchronize Panel. Then, notify the co-worker (if not in the same office, then use Instant Messenger, Email or Phone Call) and tell them to Sync and they're ready to go.

 

There is an integrated messenger service within Revit that works really well with worksharing, but I.T. would need to set some other things in place for this to work as smoothly as it needs to.

 

So the good and bad is this: The good is that it really does delegate the work. It constrains people in a very positive way, and it "forces" true collaboration between team members, and not only that it's great for model managers. They can create a Workset, place an entire area on that Workset and lock it out, never relinquishing the selected models so nobody else can alter it. The bad is when someone has touched many objects, thus borrowing them from the Central Model, and they go to lunch or a doc appointment or leave for the day without Syncing or Relinquishing. There is an admin procedure to bypass this issue though, so it's not an end-all be-all, but it does give you ten minutes worth of downtime, and possibly lost work up to 30 minutes worth if you have to override their local model status. Rarely happens though after people get used to Revit and how Worksharing/Central Models work.

 

Hope this helps.

[Epicurwin]

Thanks, you're a saint. We are already putting this into practice.