Disadvantage of sheetsets

[Organic]

I am interested in hearing disadvantages and problems firms have used when moving to sheet-sets.

 

There is a push internally to try to move to these (from the current system of using paperspace layouts) although I'm hesitant.

 

Edit: should have checked title :/

Edited November 30, 2014 by Organic

[BlackBox]

I am interested in hearing disadvantages and problems firms have used when moving to sheet-sets.

 

There is a push internally to try to move to these (from the current system of using paperspace layouts) although I'm hesitant.

 

Edit: should have checked title :/

 

Firstly, Sheet Set Manager (SSM) directly uses PaperSpace Layouts, and will not allow user to import a drawing without an initialized Layout, so you'll continue to work with PaperSpace all the same... It will just be easier to navigate and manager a project's drawings.

 

I know of no disadvantages to using SSM; it is not without it's shortcomings, mind you. I'm a strong advocate for the use of SSM, and have commented in several threads about many of its strengths.

 

What are your concerns?

 

Cheers

[steven-g]

I am fairly new to sheet sets (only one project so far) as advertised I have found it a great way to keep track of drawings, and the full potential of fields looks promising. My only problem is with the plotting of drawings, (covered in another thread), it does work but I don't use it because it ties up my computer making it unusable, however if you have multiple people working on a project, I would personally say sheet sets are great for organising drawings, even just for my self I will not go back to the old way of individual drawings.

[Organic]

Firstly, Sheet Set Manager (SSM) directly uses PaperSpace Layouts, and will not allow user to import a drawing without an initialized Layout, so you'll continue to work with PaperSpace all the same... It will just be easier to navigate and manager a project's drawings.

 

I know of no disadvantages to using SSM; it is not without it's shortcomings, mind you. I'm a strong advocate for the use of SSM, and have commented in several threads about many of its strengths.

 

What are your concerns?

 

Cheers

 

My main concern is that it adds a layer of complexity we don't need (I am still interested in hearing technical issues though). I've seen examples and was walked through them and can see their use although realistically many of our staff will be totally lost and won't use be able to use them - formal (or even inhouse training) training is a big 'no no' (an issue for another day).

 

To put it in perspective we have people who struggle to use viewports, freeze off a layer in a viewport (or more commonly, complain when they find the layer is on in the model but not showing up in a viewport), understand how blocks work etc... sheet sets is going to be a nightmare to try to implement/support that I simply don't have time to do.

[tzframpton]

Sheet Sets are great but I will be honest.... it does take a while to get the hang of them. It's usually a frustrating experience in the beginning because of all the little "gotcha's". Once a good template is in place, it does make things easier for sure, especially if you utilize SSM to the fullest with SSM FIELDS that auto-link Viewport Numbers for Callout Bubbles, Scales, References, Project Info, etc.

[ReMark]

You might want to look at the Sheets Happen document referenced in this AutoCAD Insider article by Heidi Hewitt. Note the link to the document (which in itself is 50 pages).

 

http://autocadinsider.autodesk.com/my_weblog/2008/09/sheets-happen-m.html

 

I'm curious as to how/why you have people who do not understand how blocks work or how to utilize viewports effectively. Your day must be spent continuously putting out brush fires.

[tzframpton]

^ ReMark's document that he linked is the best thing I've seen on the web for Sheet Sets. That's how I learned them back in the day, from this same document. I think the main thing to get used to is to create Model Views and naming them so the Viewport Tag can populate the info. That was the biggest thing to get over because it seems unnecessary, but the quality control is definitely there. It's a management issue, too, not a technical issue, which brings to the table "how do you enforce it" for the CAD Manager role.

[BlackBox]

I personally skip the plotting via SSM entirely... Instead simply implement named Page Setups with this plug-in, enabled the Autopublish Mechanism to automagically produce prints when I SAVE*, and preclude undesired prints with this plug-in.

[BlackBox]

This old post may also be of use to those that use SSM, and would like to clean up the recent files list.

[Jeff H]

Most tutorials on using sheetsets over-emphasize certain aspects and can be confusing because the documentation for using them is basically non-existence so assumptions are made in tutorials that are incorrect etc,....

 

When you break down a SheetSet it is nothing but references to PaperSpace Layouts, and that's its.

It also has a FieldEvaluator.

 

It stores addtional information like path for default template to use, default publish location, files to use for page overrides etc......

 

You can create Named views and place them on a sheet which xrefs that drawing and creates viewport at scale of view, inserts blocks you specify etc......

 

But when starting to use them with all the crap above and more all of that just boils down to a file that stores paths to PaperSpace Layouts and AutoCAD has FieldEvaluator that can be used with that file.

Thats it.

All of the plotting it does can be done without sheetsets it just makes it easier to apply them to the PaperSpace Layouts it references.

I set BACKGROUNDPLOT so Publish is set to BackGround and use PageOverrides

 

Want proof

Download attached file or copy XML below and save to a txt or xml file or whatever you want.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<AcSmDatabase clsid="g2162C6B6-0CE4-40E8-912B-46F59DFDF826" ID="gB471938F-9CD9-47DD-88D9-C93B9CD4AC4C">
 <AcSmProp propname="DbFingerPrint" vt="8">g344B5363-A206-4697-A138-DA8647EC633E</AcSmProp>
 <AcSmProp propname="DbVersion" vt="8">1.1</AcSmProp>
 <AcSmProp propname="FileRevision" vt="3">8</AcSmProp>
 <AcSmSheetSet clsid="gB20534F2-0978-418C-8D14-2E6928A077ED" ID="gC27BE458-B7E5-4F9A-A6B5-CA9FF5F653BF" propname="SheetSet" vt="13">
   <AcSmCalloutBlocks clsid="g203EAB46-483B-4E6B-A10B-15E9A4B210FF" ID="gD3126597-B1CC-4AAE-A787-A7ABB89889A9" propname="CalloutBlocks" vt="13" />
   <AcSmCustomPropertyBag clsid="g4D103908-8C86-4D95-BBF4-68B9A7B00731" ID="gFC23A2B9-5C4B-4783-B512-080815893238" propname="CustomPropertyBag" vt="13">
     <AcSmCustomPropertyValue clsid="g8D22A2A4-1777-4D78-84CC-69EF741FE954" ID="g808D5B88-A740-46D6-A5EB-F99203E2CD52" propname="SheetProp" vt="13">
       <AcSmProp propname="Flags" vt="3">2</AcSmProp>
       <AcSmProp propname="Value" vt="8">SheetPropValue</AcSmProp>
     </AcSmCustomPropertyValue>
     <AcSmCustomPropertyValue clsid="g8D22A2A4-1777-4D78-84CC-69EF741FE954" ID="gCE72C34C-36FD-49EA-8F4E-C86E32A53E47" propname="SheetSetProp" vt="13">
       <AcSmProp propname="Flags" vt="3">1</AcSmProp>
       <AcSmProp propname="Value" vt="8">SheetSetPropValue</AcSmProp>
     </AcSmCustomPropertyValue>
   </AcSmCustomPropertyBag>
   <AcSmAcDbLayoutReference clsid="g94910E94-4FCA-427C-B6ED-2EC9E1C900C7" ID="gFF3164E2-2780-41ED-AC5C-1FB2C50FEF47" propname="DefDwtLayout" vt="13" />
   <AcSmAcDbBlockRecordReference clsid="g11782523-474B-4C83-9646-57C052847FBB" ID="g32D3CAEF-A0A3-48DD-B863-8A13D34D61CF" propname="DefLabelBlk" vt="13" />
   <AcSmProp propname="Name" vt="8">FakeSheets</AcSmProp>
   <AcSmFileReference clsid="g6BF87AE7-1BEC-4BDB-98BB-5B91F7772793" ID="gC58476C2-4631-43F2-AC25-0B98A7358D10" propname="NewSheetLocation" vt="13" />
   <AcSmProjectPointLocations clsid="gE40EA246-BAB4-4907-81A5-511EA30C16FD" ID="g02810C36-B261-4EE2-BF9A-6E4A5BDDB533" propname="ProjectPointLocations" vt="13" />
   <AcSmPublishOptions clsid="gF57F96E7-0F16-4DC9-8F09-52F7BB389AB6" ID="gDAE10894-6940-444E-B902-A37408134DD4" propname="PublishOptions" vt="13">
     <AcSmSimpleFileReferece clsid="gD15A03C2-C39B-428A-9BBA-C031347C496F" ID="g7E6B6619-09DB-4763-88F0-D56EA6C20869" propname="DefaultOutputdir" vt="13" />
     <AcSmProp propname="DwfType" vt="2">-1</AcSmProp>
     <AcSmProp propname="EplotFormat" vt="3">2</AcSmProp>
     <AcSmProp propname="LayerInfo" vt="2">-1</AcSmProp>
     <AcSmProp propname="PromptForName" vt="2">-1</AcSmProp>
   </AcSmPublishOptions>
   <AcSmResources clsid="g3F0FAF10-09DE-4EBA-AED1-C4E4D6FECF5D" ID="g9ADA3CD6-421C-4A72-A8F0-2FE50538FB94" propname="Resources" vt="13" />
   <AcSmSheetSelSets clsid="g444780B8-6527-43A8-8DC4-FAB41B7E48BB" ID="g1D5A7459-3A8C-420D-A69E-AE528144B907" propname="SheetSelSets" vt="13" />
   <AcSmViewCategories clsid="g021730DF-5BEA-48E9-BC7A-35087A674FD0" ID="g5C5AFA89-AE6D-4961-98CD-A85CD33874ED" propname="ViewCategories" vt="13">
     <AcSmViewCategory clsid="g4AEA81ED-C24F-477B-A534-EA69220A276A" ID="g14DCE2AB-8F6D-4E87-9812-0DD511FDC07A">
       <AcSmCalloutBlockReferences clsid="g67C52FE4-0A6B-4C82-A4CC-5E68537747B0" ID="g77D65516-62D5-4D85-8ADE-CD06AC4E57E2" propname="CalloutBlocks" vt="13" />
     </AcSmViewCategory>
   </AcSmViewCategories>
   <AcSmSubset clsid="g076D548F-B0F5-4FE1-B35D-7F7B73B8D322" ID="g97D3D632-6443-4875-A408-BE3E48B1C960">
     <AcSmProp propname="Desc" vt="8">New subset added</AcSmProp>
     <AcSmProp propname="Name" vt="8">Panels</AcSmProp>
     <AcSmFileReference clsid="g6BF87AE7-1BEC-4BDB-98BB-5B91F7772793" ID="g980BC295-D2D4-4400-914C-BA8B59283CA8" propname="NewSheetLocation" vt="13" />
     <AcSmSheet clsid="g16A07941-BC15-4D48-A880-9D5A211D5065" ID="g061239F9-15D7-4019-92D1-E3701DDA7E96">
       <AcSmCustomPropertyBag clsid="g4D103908-8C86-4D95-BBF4-68B9A7B00731" ID="g95E6363D-37FC-43A2-8C07-9209198F7484" propname="CustomPropertyBag" vt="13">
         <AcSmCustomPropertyValue clsid="g8D22A2A4-1777-4D78-84CC-69EF741FE954" ID="g43C5ED98-73AC-4705-BC68-773F00A409FE" propname="SheetProp" vt="13">
           <AcSmProp propname="Flags" vt="3">2</AcSmProp>
           <AcSmProp propname="Value" vt="8"> [b][color="red"]***********#######HERE IS the Value##########**************** [/color][/b]</AcSmProp>
         </AcSmCustomPropertyValue>
       </AcSmCustomPropertyBag>
       <AcSmAcDbLayoutReference clsid="g94910E94-4FCA-427C-B6ED-2EC9E1C900C7" ID="g3B3E84D5-B60F-4CD9-B529-A721E7C416F0" propname="Layout" vt="13">
         <AcSmProp propname="Name" vt="8">FakeSheetName</AcSmProp>
       </AcSmAcDbLayoutReference>
       <AcSmProp propname="Number" vt="8">[b][color="red"]E-5[/color][/b]</AcSmProp>
       <AcSmSheetViews clsid="gF40F931B-64BC-4B90-9FC8-A11A77D6815B" ID="g3005F031-7A28-46A5-A84B-249F737E3114" propname="SheetViews" vt="13" />
       <AcSmProp propname="Title" vt="8">[b][color="red"]WHAT EVER TITLE YOU WANT[/color][/b]</AcSmProp>
     </AcSmSheet>
   </AcSmSubset>
 </AcSmSheetSet>
</AcSmDatabase>

 

 

Notice the parts in red above you can change the values to what ever you want.

Now just update path of file in red below to where you saved above file

And now you can paste text below in mtext or text and it will show value of whatever is set in file above.

you will need to save file then regen, or save etc.. depending on FIELDEVAL settings

%<\AcSm Database("[b][color="darkred"]C:\Users\jhornsby\Desktop\sheetset.txt[/color][/b]").SheetSet("gC27BE458-B7E5-4F9A-A6B5-CA9FF5F653BF").Component("g061239F9-15D7-4019-92D1-E3701DDA7E96").SheetProp>%

%<\AcSm Database("[b][color="darkred"]C:\Users\jhornsby\Desktop\sheetset.txt[/color][/b]").SheetSet("gC27BE458-B7E5-4F9A-A6B5-CA9FF5F653BF").Component("g061239F9-15D7-4019-92D1-E3701DDA7E96").Number>%

%<\AcSm Database("[b][color="darkred"]C:\Users\jhornsby\Desktop\sheetset.txt[/color][/b]").SheetSet("gC27BE458-B7E5-4F9A-A6B5-CA9FF5F653BF").Component("g061239F9-15D7-4019-92D1-E3701DDA7E96").Title>%

 

Only things that differ off top of my head are "Place Value Holders" which for example ViewScale is same thing as adding field selecting viewport and using CustomName property.

sheetset.txt

[BlackBox]

... all of that just boils down to a file that stores paths to PaperSpace Layouts and AutoCAD has FieldEvaluator that can be used with that file.

Thats it.

All of the plotting it does can be done without sheetsets it just makes it easier to apply them to the PaperSpace Layouts it references.

I set BACKGROUNDPLOT so Publish is set to BackGround and use PageOverrides

 

Want proof

Download attached file or copy XML below and save to a txt or xml file or whatever you want.

 

For those not already aware of Jeff's (and Jar's) efforts regarding the 'decryption' of Sheet Set (.DST) files, see the .ZIP file at the bottom of this post.

 

Cheers

[KiLLiNG-TiME]

Disadvantage of sheetsets (none that i can see)

 

This comes in very handy indeed.

 

http://www.jtbworld.com/SSMPropEditor.htm

 

Most importantly is setting up good templates both drawings & .dst files.

When printing i make sure everybody in our office knows to import there page layouts from our "read only" templates & not use one which somebody may have changed in the layouts.

 

Also when a project gets big we also find it handy to have more than one .dst on a project for each of our deliverables this way we get people to manage there own sheets in the project, its also very handy for getting people to think like a team & work out just who is responsible for which set of deliverables. So the knock on effect of using the SSM is project management.

 

Setting up your fields in your template is very important in fact i cannot see the point in using the thing without them.

Edited April 20, 2015 by KiLLiNG-TiME

[rkmcswain]

..... My only problem is with the plotting of drawings, (covered in another thread), it does work but I don't use it because it ties up my computer making it unusable....

 

On the contrary, printing a sheet set is one of the largest benefits to using SSM. One click and your entire set is published without any thought. If you really need to keep working during this time, open a second session of AutoCAD.

 

My main concern is that it adds a layer of complexity we don't need

 

On the contrary, it removes a lot of manual, human editing that is of course prone to mistakes. Take for example, sheet numbering/naming together with the sheet index on the cover sheet. Years ago, nobody here could match the sheet descriptions on the sheet with the sheet index. There would always be a mistake. Now, it's very rare and only then because someone didn't use the proper field. As mentioned above, printing a set is foolproof and easy.

 

I highly advise creating a good template (or multiple templates) that includes your custom fields, and is pre-filled out with things that don't often change. You will become frustrated fast if you start from scratch each time you need a SS. (You wouldn't start a DWG from scratch each time and make your layers and styles manually, right?). For example, for a particular job type here (single family residential), I have a standard SS that I have been using for 3 years. I simply copy it to the next new job folder, along with the standard detail sheets and templates for other standard type sheets. 80% of the SS is done at that point, short of editing the names of the SS and the things like job #, number of sheets, etc.

[KiLLiNG-TiME]

Completely agree with all you say there rkmcswain

 

In our template job folder, i have made all the titlesheets (layout files) which match our list of standard deliverables so when a new project comes into the office the template folders are copied renamed (project numbers) then all the team needs to do is edit the paths in the SSM then import the sheets into the SSM & draw the model files, sorted.

 

The office now loves the SSM & i think they would find it tricky to work without it...

[BlackBox]

On the contrary, printing a sheet set is one of the largest benefits to using SSM. One click and your entire set is published without any thought. If you really need to keep working during this time, open a second session of AutoCAD.

 

No need to open a second session, or use SSM to publish at all for that matter, with the advent of AUTOPUBLISH mechanism... Just SAVE your work, and your sheet drawing(s) are automagically printed to PDF, etc.

 

[Edit] - Also worthy of noting, is that an AUTOPUBLISH produced PDF takes +/- 1-2 seconds, whereas a PUBLISH / PLOT of same takes 10+ seconds to do the same task (per drawing) (observations made on my own workstation).

[KiLLiNG-TiME]

The Autopublish Mechanism is very nice but unfortunately were i work uses AutoCAD LT & we don't even get a default template path/file for the SSM under AutoCAD options !! so i had to work around these issues & have no choice but to use the publish option.

[JamCAD]

Last time I used SSM (AutoCAD 2012) I found that on any large projects with more than 40 drgs the SSM caused the drawings and AutoCAD in general to run much slower. Avoided using it ever since.

[KiLLiNG-TiME]

Last time I used SSM (AutoCAD 2012) I found that on any large projects with more than 40 drgs the SSM caused the drawings and AutoCAD in general to run much slower. Avoided using it ever since.

As i said in a previous post if a project (.dst file) gets to big i split the .dst problem solved.

[howitzer]

I am interested in hearing disadvantages and problems firms have used when moving to sheet-sets.

 

There is a push internally to try to move to these (from the current system of using paperspace layouts) although I'm hesitant.

 

Edit: should have checked title :/

 

I am fairly new to sheet sets (only one project so far) as advertised I have found it a great way to keep track of drawings, and the full potential of fields looks promising. My only problem is with the plotting of drawings, (covered in another thread), it does work but I don't use it because it ties up my computer making it unusable, however if you have multiple people working on a project, I would personally say sheet sets are great for organising drawings, even just for my self I will not go back to the old way of individual drawings.

For the most part I like sheet sets. They do help with organization and plotting. There are a couple quirks that I wish were different, though.

 

1) Theoretically, you can continue working (in other drawings) while it is cranking away making plots. I have found this to not be the case. If I try, it crashes pretty much every time.

 

2) You cannot have the same layout in multiple sheet sets. I find this incredibly short-sighted. I would like to be able to set up a sheet set for different agencies based on what they want to see. A water agency, for example, would want to see water sheets but not sanitary sheets. I do use subsets, and this helps some, but is not as ideal as it should be. I can edit out sheets from a PDF file later, but I shouldn't have to.

 

 

My main concern is that it adds a layer of complexity we don't need (I am still interested in hearing technical issues though). I've seen examples and was walked through them and can see their use although realistically many of our staff will be totally lost and won't use be able to use them - formal (or even inhouse training) training is a big 'no no' (an issue for another day).

 

To put it in perspective we have people who struggle to use viewports, freeze off a layer in a viewport (or more commonly, complain when they find the layer is on in the model but not showing up in a viewport), understand how blocks work etc... sheet sets is going to be a nightmare to try to implement/support that I simply don't have time to do.

This is an issue that I have found with AutoCAD in general. How "dumbed down" do we keep our process to allow everybody to function? If we utilize the program to close to its fullest, some will be left behind. On the flip side, if we dumb it down so the slow person can keep up, we are thwarting the faster person and really defeating the whole point of having a comprehensive drafting and design program.