Structural Steel Models Bevel (Fillet Values)?

[autocad2014newbie]

Not sure if I'm posting in the right subforum as it might not be a direct autocad question, but I was advised by some members here on another post that if I wanted to get the value of bevels from structural steel models, to refer to the Steel Construction Manual by AISC. I got my hands on an online copy of the 13th edition and have gone through it, and got the gist of how this manual can help me, but since I'm on my own here, I wouldn't know where to look to get the value I'm looking for.

 

I hope I'm not asking for too much, but I'm learning this as I go. I don't have the clearest pdf version of it, and I know it might be difficult to read my screenshot while I search for a clearer version, but I'm hoping to use it as a reference for one of you guys who might have the same book and could point out the proper page number and letter variable in the drawings where I should be looking for this value. Could you give me an example of which page/letter I should be looking at to get this bevel value from the steel models in the book? I'm modeling on autocad using architectural units. What measuring units would this value in the Manual Steel of Construction book be in, and would it be the same value just typing it in as the radius value when using the fillet command on autocad or would I have to do some math of my own before entering the radius into autocad?

 

Values I'm trying to get:

 

 

Screenshot of page:

[ReMark]

You can use the Fillet command and specify the radius you want.

 

Another option would be to forget reinventing the wheel, from scratch, and use the free lisp program called Al's Steel Mill. He's done all the work for you. Find it here...

 

http://www.structuralsteeldetailer.us/autocad.html

Edited August 18, 2014 by ReMark
corrected mis-information

[autocad2014newbie]

I have been using Al's Steel Mill models for the time being, but I still want to know where to find the value and model it from scratch. I see it as my first foot in the door of knowing how to use the manual and implementing them into autocad. If I can figure out how to do this one, it will give me an idea of how to use the other ones instead of just copying and pasting premade ones.

[ReMark]

The radius is not called out directly in either the diagram or in the table. It will vary with the manufacturer.

Edited August 18, 2014 by ReMark
corrected mis-information

[autocad2014newbie]

Ok so what I can tell from the diagram if I wanted to get the bevel at the bottom, I would look into variables xp and k or xp and yp? Am I even in the right ballpark?

[ReMark]

It is not a bevel; it is a radius. Don't take the diagram literally.

[autocad2014newbie]

So the lowercase r in the axis tables in the pages means radius too? What's the difference between the r's in x, y, and z axis tables?

[BIGAL]

You need to find a differrent page you need dimension properties not structural parameters not sure where you are in world but basicly there are two standards metric and imperial you should download the properties from your steel supplier by this I dont mean guy down the road but the company that actually makes the steel beams. add your location to your detials helps in understanding standards that are to be used.

 

Heres another freebie http://www.steelweb.info/ it has sizes and dims which is what you want

 

Another this is the manufacturers site http://www.onesteel.com/publications.asp?category=238&cname=Structural%20Sections this pages has lots of free stuff.

[ReMark]

The definitive answer comes straight from the AISC website.

 

"Per Section 12.3.1 of ASTM A6, fillet radii are an unspecified dimension. As such, they are manufacturer-specific. Contact an individual manufacturer directly for additional information.

AISC performs a periodic survey of producers' practices to determine the minimum and maximum fillets used in shape production. The results of that survey are used to establish values in the AISC Manual, such as T, kdes, kdet and k1 are Detailing values T, kdet and k1 based upon the largest reported fillet radius, which ensures that potentially large fillet radii will not lead to fit-up problems. kdes is a design value based upon the smallest reported fillet, which ensures that the strength will not be overestimated in a design calculation no matter what the fillet size."

 

Example. Nucor-Yamato SteelClick on this link then start scrolling. You'll see the radius this company uses for their steel beams.

 

http://www.gamcoform.com/Resources/Wide%20Flange%20Beam%20Chart.pdf

Edited August 18, 2014 by ReMark

[autocad2014newbie]

[/i]Example. Nucor-Yamato SteelClick on this link then start scrolling. You'll see the radius this company uses for their steel beams.

 

http://www.gamcoform.com/Resources/Wide%20Flange%20Beam%20Chart.pdf

 

This is exactly what I'm looking for. Do you know of any more resources like this? At this point I figure my models are not going to be to exact perfection unless I take up the math and study the manual religiously, but if I could at least get a generalized estimate of the radius knowing different manufactures might have different fillet radius', I'd be ok with it visually for the time being just knowing how it's done now.

 

Does anyone have a proper download to Al's Steel Mill? I tried the website http://www.structuralsteeldetailer.us/autocad.html , but the download link seems to be broken. http://www.structuralsteeldetailer.us/download/Tip1779.zip Is it a plugin or are they individual models? Is it simple to install? And is it a GUI interface or are there any other free alternatives with GUI interfaces?

[ReMark]

Funny thing is you order a W8x31 from two different suppliers and compare them only to find they are not exactly the same. I would not get bent out of shape trying to attain "perfection".

 

I think I have a copy of the zip file. I'll check and let you know. No need to. You clicked on the wrong link. Try the one called Updated Files.

 

Yes, it is simple to install. Any other free ones you find probably will not be of the same calibre.

[autocad2014newbie]

Can you help me out a bit here with Al's Steel Mill. Did some googling around and says I should link the folder to autocad's support path? Also found from another thread that the original .zip came with a help file, the updated one doesn't. Any idea on what the proper path for this folder should be, how to link it to autocad, and how to bring up the dialogue?

[BIGAL]

If you Config, Files, Support file search path this will show you the locations that are currently automatically searched, you can add any path you like, so I have a LISPS directory on the server this is where I would place Al's steel mill this way I can simply load a program by short name not needing full path (load "mylisp") alternatively you can use Appload to load a program. I dont have the Al's steel mill here so can not advise further sure Remark will.

[ReMark]

Yes, there really is a help "text" file. It is named STL_HELP.TXT. read it.

 

Yes, the location of the folder containing all 22 files must be included in AutoCAD's search path. This can be done in one of two ways. 1) Move the files to a folder that is already listed or 2) Create a new path to the folder via Options > Files > Support File Search Path > Add button.

 

There is no "link" required to run the program. It can be loaded using the APPLOAD command, using ACADDOC.lsp or via the Startup Suite. For more information on these three methods click on the link below.

 

http://lee-mac.com/tutorials.html

 

You want to read: How to Run An AutoLISP Program and Loading Programs Automatically.

 

Once the program is loaded all you have to do to run it is type STL at the command line.

 

 

The dialog box.

 

Got all that? Good. Now go do it.

[Dadgad]

Yes, there really is a help "text" file. It is named STL_HELP.TXT. read it.

 

Yes, the location of the folder containing all 22 files must be included in AutoCAD's search path. This can be done in one of two ways. 1) Move the files to a folder that is already listed or 2) Create a new path to the folder via Options > Files > Support File Search Path > Add button.

 

There is no "link" required to run the program. It can be loaded using the APPLOAD command, using ACADDOC.lsp or via the Startup Suite. For more information on these three methods click on the link below.

 

http://lee-mac.com/tutorials.html

 

You want to read: How to Run An AutoLISP Program and Loading Programs Automatically.

 

Once the program is loaded all you have to do to run it is type STL at the command line.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]50463[/ATTACH]

 

The dialog box.

 

Got all that? Good. Now go do it.

 

I tried to do this this morning, and everything got messed up.

I load lisps all the time, but when I tried to run it the dialog box wouldn't open.

I tried to abort the command, and couldn't get out of the lisp, so I shut down Autocad.

When I rebooted I found that my ACAD.pgp had gone missing, and not only my personal

shortcall alias customizations, but the whole file was missing, it took me quite a while to get everything back on the tracks,

despite having copies of my .pgp and .svf files.

Looking at the dialog box makes me want to do it again, but I think I will give it a pass,

as I was really annoyed by all the time I spent trying to fix it earlier.

 

Newbie, in order to see and read the HELP text document, open it with Notepad,

in the folder where you have saved it, as it is not an Autocad file type, Autcad will

not see it, which is probably why you think it is not there.

[ReMark]

I had no such problems. Can't imagine what you might have done wrong to create such havoc. BTW....I installed it fresh in AutoCAD 2014 this morning.

[Dadgad]

I had no such problems. Can't imagine what you might have done wrong to create such havoc. BTW....I installed it fresh in AutoCAD 2014 this morning.

 

I was amazed too, wanted to suggest it for a friend of mine.

I wish I had gotten it to work. not so much that I need it, as I like it.

Come to think of it, I had tried to install it once before, still had it in my LISP folder, and also

failed to get it working, although without any catastrophic inconveniences.

The STL command was recognized, but the dialog box never opened.

Can't win them all I guess.

[ReMark]

Well after I read your post I went back and shut down AutoCAD 2014 then restarted it. I used the APPLOAD method for loading the routine and it worked without a hitch. BTW...I still had access to my custom acad.pgp file as well. What method did you use to load the program?

[Dadgad]

Well after I read your post I went back and shut down AutoCAD 2014 then restarted it. I used the APPLOAD method for loading the routine and it worked without a hitch. BTW...I still had access to my custom acad.pgp file as well. What method did you use to load the program?[/quote

 

I used the Auto Lisp load application selected from the TOOLS dropdown on the menu bar, and watched it load and confirm that it had loaded. As I said earlier, the STL command was recognized, but the dialog never opened. I tried to escape from the lisp, as it obviously wasn't working correctly, but I couldn't abort, so I shut Autocad down. It changes a bunch of the system variable settings temporarily, as described in the help text, and they are supposed to reset after running the lisp, but it seemed like the abort handling was insufficient to restore my settings. When I rebooted Autocad, none of my custom shortcalls were recognized, and so I went to open my ,pgp file, to see what was up, and it was reported as unfound.

 

What a jerk I am. I figured hey, let's try it again, glad I did on Autocad 2012, instead of 2013 which I broke yesterday. Now my Autocad 2012 is displaying the same issues as I reported earlier. I am attaching a couple of screenshots, but don't care to try it again, nor to fix my 2012 at the moment, as I wasted so much time doing it yesterday on 2013. I tried REPAIRING Autocad, but that didn't fix it.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Dadgad

[Dadgad]

Well after I read your post I went back and shut down AutoCAD 2014 then restarted it. I used the APPLOAD method for loading the routine and it worked without a hitch. BTW...I still had access to my custom acad.pgp file as well. What method did you use to load the program?[/quote

 

I used the Auto Lisp load application selected from the TOOLS dropdown on the menu bar, and watched it load and confirm that it had loaded. As I said earlier, the STL command was recognized, but the dialog never opened. I tried to escape from the lisp, as it obviously wasn't working correctly, but I couldn't abort, so I shut Autocad down. It changes a bunch of the system variable settings temporarily, as described in the help text, and they are supposed to reset after running the lisp, but it seemed like the abort handling was insufficient to restore my settings. When I rebooted Autocad, none of my custom shortcalls were recognized, and so I went to open my ,pgp file, to see what was up, and it was reported as unfound.

 

What a jerk I am. I figured hey, let's try it again, glad I did on Autocad 2012, instead of 2013 which I broke yesterday. Now my Autocad 2012 is displaying the same issues as I reported earlier. I am attaching a couple of screenshots, but don't care to try it again, nor to fix my 2012 at the moment, as I wasted so much time doing it yesterday on 2013. I tried REPAIRING Autocad, but that didn't fix it.

 

Thank God, I managed to get 2012 back on the tracks appreciably quicker than 2013 yesterday.