Frustrated and looking for a solution

[volking]

I’ve downloaded, bought and tried about a dozen CAD tools. NONE do what I’m looking for, aaaaarrrrggghhh!

 

Okay, I’m not a CAD sort of a guy (but I do own a computer) and I LOVE HOME PROJECTS. I need a CAD-like software tool to help me design “Real-World” plans using “Real-World” materials. Materials found in Home-Depot, Lowes, True-Guys, etc.

 

Plans for like maybe ... dog houses, decks, water features, stuff!

 

As a example, lets talk about; Plans for wooden work stool, using materials from Home Depot.

 

So I go buy ...

 

Two 2x4 pine 8ft framing studs (actually 1-3/8” by 3-3/8” by 92-5/8”)

and

16 Cabinet Screws

Part Number: CSFS-044

Cost: 14¢ea

Diameter: #6

Length: 3-3/4"

Head Style: Flat

Driver Type: Phillips

Material: Steel

 

Then, using the above “Real-World” material, let me start creating a design for a wooden work stool.

 

The software tool lets me cut the 2 framing studs into 8 equal pieces. BUT surprise, their lengths become 23-7/64” each. Why? Because the stud is actually 92-5/8” and three saw cuts of 1/16” each causes 3/16” wood loss.

 

Now we take two short stud pieces, lay them in an “L” and show them screwed together. THEN, the software warns me, “The screw is too long!” Because, 1-3/8” + 1-3/8” = 2-3/4” which is also the exact length of the purchased screws (2-3/4”). Even a tiny countersink will cause the sharp screw point to protrude and be dangerous.

 

A CAD like tool which uses “Real-World” material for “Real-World” projects.

 

For us non-CAD people ... who own a computer.

[welldriller]

You thing a 2-1/2" screw might work

[ReMark]

Please tell us what CAD programs you have tried that have left you begging for a real world solution.

[Lazer]

Lots of cad programs will do these types of projects however you will need training and time to learn the basics.

[Dana W]

It sounds like the OP is looking for a program that comes with libraries of canned materials in their actual size, and can also tell him what sort of fasteners should be used, and how certain structures should be assembled. (This sounds a little like Revit.)

 

Including basic woodworking and framing instructions in the software also would seem to be an added benefit. (This doesn't sound like Revit.)

 

For instance:

Don't use STUDS unless you are building a wall.

Studs are pre sized to fit in a wall, with a top plate, and one 2x4 bottom plate.

Pre cut bearing studs are 1 1/2" shorter.

This give you a wall approximately 96" tall with some wiggle room.

All 2x4's are not studs.

Pre-cut framing lumber one finds at the local big box is usually sold in 24" increments, starting at 8'-0" and going up to 20'-0" for some sizes.

Pre-cut Studs are just that, wall studs.

Allow 10% or better for waste. There will be waste.

The actual sizes of framing lumber such as a 2x4 are generally 1/2" smaller than "Nominal".

Measure and mark before cutting.

Cut on the waste side of the line.

if your saw is only making a 1/16" kerf (cut), then it is too small, hand saw or otherwise, to be used on a 2x4.

Typical Hand and power tools used with framing lumber tend to remove about 1/8" of material.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Dana W

[ReMark]

In the real world wood products you buy may have imperfections. Are you going to insist on the same realism?

 

In the real world some wood products are sold by grade. Are you going to insist on the same type of availability?

 

In the real world one can purchase galvanized nails and stainless steel screws. Are you going to also insist your perfect CAD program offer these options too?

 

In the real world mistakes are made, obstacles are encountered and changes common. Would you like your perfect CAD program to emmulate the same thing?

 

How much realism does one need to design a house using a CAD program anyway?

[Dana W]

Express tools >> Birdhouse >> Bluebird

[ReMark]

I can understand, even appreciate, someone who is a stickler for detail but I think the OP is carrying it to the extreme. Now maybe if one were designing the Hadron Collider I could understand it but I don't feel it is necessary for a stick built house. We can be as accurate as hell drawing our foundation plan, floor plan, elevations, roof plan, etc. but the house will still be built by men using circular saws, nailguns and less-than-perfect materials.

[Dana W]

That is exactly the point, One has to know a bit about what is to be designed and built and what it is to be built out of. As far as I know, there is no program that can fill in for basic knowledge.

[welldriller]

if your saw is only making a 1/16" kerf (cut), then it is too small, hand saw or otherwise, to be used on a 2x4.

Typical Hand and power tools used with framing lumber tend to remove about 1/8" of material.

 

Dana i defiantly perfer a saw that has a 1/8" cut, but they do have some of the new thin kerf blades that only have a 1/16" cut.

i have one on my 10" table saw. (and no i will not buy another one)

[Dana W]

if your saw is only making a 1/16" kerf (cut), then it is too small, hand saw or otherwise, to be used on a 2x4.

Typical Hand and power tools used with framing lumber tend to remove about 1/8" of material.

 

Dana i defiantly perfer a saw that has a 1/8" cut, but they do have some of the new thin kerf blades that only have a 1/16" cut.

i have one on my 10" table saw. (and no i will not buy another one)

Yeah, been there. I have a Freud thin kerf "ultimate Cut-Off" (80 teeth) carbide blade I used on the miter saw. It leaves closer to 3/32 than 1/16 kerf, but I bought it because it cuts with less drag in the wood. It leaves a very smooth sided cut, but It seems to dull very fast, and costs nearly as much as a new blade to sharpen. I got it fairly hot once cutting a LOT of teak for an outdoor stair, and it developed a small expansion wobble. At least when it cooled down, it pretty much regained its flatness. I won't buy another thin kerf blade either. I do too much work with heavier thicknesses of wood to use one. Supposedly, they don't like wood thicker than 1 1/2".

[volking]

I have no intentions nor desire to learn enough CAD to be able to use a CAD tool. Actually, I probably don't have enough intelligence either ...

 

What I want, as a CAD illiterate, is to draw up plans for a work bench, a deck maybe even a small cabinet. I have no intention of ever designing a house nor the Hadron Collider

 

So, off the shelf CAD programs have a learning curve far too steep for the "average" Joe, thus I was looking for a simpler tool. And by the way, there's a lot of us average-joes in the world, who could (and would) use such a tool.

 

Sigh ... I guess I'm stuck ... either I spend days and days and days learning a CAD tool ... or I do without (which is what I'm doing now)

 

Thanks for everyone's comments.

 

Fred

[f700es]

Volking, have you looked at SketchUp? It is a 3D/Design tool made for anyone. The interface is easy to use and there are a TON of videos on youtube about using it. There is a free home version that might work for you. If you try it please watch some of the videos to get started.

[Tuns]

Volking, have you looked at SketchUp? It is a 3D/Design tool made for anyone. The interface is easy to use and there are a TON of videos on youtube about using it. There is a free home version that might work for you. If you try it please watch some of the videos to get started.

I've used both SketchUp and AutoCAD and in my opinion, AutoCAD is by far easier to use and learn. I'd just recommend that he takes the time to figure out the basics of AutoCAD instead of using SketchUp. Never know though. He might like SketchUp more than AutoCAD.

[f700es]

I've used both SketchUp and AutoCAD and in my opinion, AutoCAD is by far easier to use and learn. I'd just recommend that he takes the time to figure out the basics of AutoCAD instead of using SketchUp. Never know though. He might like SketchUp more than AutoCAD.

 

Well AutoCAD is a very complex application, it either takes time or you are wired wrong and pick it right up. I picked it right up BTW

 

I've seen kids pick SU up and start using it without much instruction.

[ReMark]

You bemoan the fact you can't find "real world" components but then you go on to say you aren't intelligent enough to learn a CAD program. I suggest you use a tried and true method that has worked for centuries...pencil and paper. Even da Vinci found it suited his needs.

[volking]

No I haven't tried SketchUp ... I'll try

 

And by-the-way, da Vinci I'm not but, paper & pencil is what I use now

 

Fred

[ReMark]

Then it seems you have found your perfect element.

 

There are kids in middle school using CAD. I think you are just as capable. Put your mind to it and ask questions here. We'll provide assistance.

 

Where do you want to start?

 

The only thing holding you back somewhat using LT is no true 3D capability. SketchUp would at least give you that additional feature. Unless you want to draw everything in isometric. That could be done using LT.

[f700es]

Here is a small project I am working on right now in SU.

 

 

You can make it simple or you can add details if you want to.

[f700es]

Then it seems you have found your perfect element.

 

There are kids in middle school using CAD. I think you are just as capable. Put your mind to it and ask questions here. We'll provide assistance.

 

Where do you want to start?

 

The only thing holding you back somewhat using LT is no true 3D capability. SketchUp would at least give you that additional feature. Unless you want to draw everything in isometric. That could be done using LT.

 

Nothing wrong with pencil and paper. It's what I learned on as well. Though I am not as old as you Remark