Page size and scale

[Vagulus]

I set up a new page thus (I live in a country which uses metric units, so ...):

 

 

Then:

 

Command: '_limits

Reset Model space limits:

Specify lower left corner or [ON/OFF] : 0.00,0.00

Specify upper right corner : 3.65,2.74

Command: C

CIRCLE

Specify center point for circle or [3P/2P/Ttr (tan tan radius)]: 1000,1000

Specify radius of circle or [Diameter]: 250

Command:

 

and I get:

 

 

The circle was centred at x=1000 metres, y=1000 metres, yet it displays right down at the bottom left of my screen. Compare the radius of the circle to the distance from the centre to the origin - it's nothing like 1:4! Look at the coordinates for the cursor!

 

Zooming in and zooming out has no effect on the huge dimensions indicated by the coordinates.

 

I know this must be simple because it is not mentioned in any textbook or tutorial I have been able to find. Authors don't seem to think it is important, but it's driving me nuts! The question is this:

 

How do I set the page size and grid scale to something sane?

 

I am pretty sure that this scale problem is at the root of many of the other problems I am having. A14 is doing it's job faithfully but the display is so small that I cannot see what is happening !

 

All assistance much appreciated.

[Vagulus]

You are not on a page, you are in model space. The drawing Limits command does not really set up a page for you, it merely limits where you can draw. Your drawing limits are 3.5 units wide and 2.7 units tall, then you drew a circle 1000 units away from 0,0? AutoCAD won't let you draw it there, because it's outside your limits, so it just drops it as far as it can go inside your limits. Drawing limits are just that, limits. You can move the cursor anywhere, don't worry about it.

 

Hi Dana

You miss the point.

 

Firstly, according to the coordinates, the circle was 'dropped' way outside the prescribed limits.

 

Then, consider the screenshot in my earlier posting. That circle is supposed to be 250 metres radius - 500 metres diameter - yet it is so small. If I draw a circle 250mm radius it appears on screen as a dot - one pixel lit. That's hardly useful for including it in a technical drawing. If I zoom in to the point where the 'circle' is a visually comprehensible size all semblance of circularity is gone! Furthermore, A14 now does not respond to the 'Circle' command.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42990[/ATTACH]

 

I guess the question now is

How do I alter the way in which distance is represented in model space?

 

Surely AutoCAD can be used to represent something smaller than 500 metres in diameter .

[Dana W]

If your limits are 3.5 units x 2.7 units, why would you draw a circle centered about 997 units outside the limits, with a radius 100 times larger than your limits? You may be experiencing what my IT guy calls "Unpredictable Results" by drawing something outside the drawing limits.

 

I don't understand your reference to a 1:4 scale expectation.

 

There are three things you need to do.

 

One - remember where you found the part of the book that discusses Drawing Limits.

Two - look up the part of the book that discusses The Grid feature.

Three - Read the parts about how to turn both of them off, then forget about using them. Oops, that's four things.

 

Most of the draftsmen that think they need to use the drawing limits feature have been retired for many years. It is a holdover from the days when an IBM PC XT Turbo with a 212kb @ 8kh processor would take 25 to 30 minutes to run a regen command on a large drawing, which simply is the same thing as a screen refresh, so Drawing Limits meant One Page. There also was no Paperspace in those days so many of them drew things to scale in the drawing area if the objects were bigger than their paper (drawing limits).

 

If you really, really need Limits, once you have set the command, draw a rectangle the same size and coordinates as your limits, as a border, so you can see it.

[Dana W]

Hi Dana

You miss the point.

 

Firstly, according to the coordinates, the circle was 'dropped' way outside the prescribed limits.

 

Then, consider the screenshot in my earlier posting. That circle is supposed to be 250 metres radius - 500 metres diameter - yet it is so small. If I draw a circle 250mm radius it appears on screen as a dot - one pixel lit. That's hardly useful for including it in a technical drawing. If I zoom in to the point where the 'circle' is a visually comprehensible size all semblance of circularity is gone! Furthermore, A14 now does not respond to the 'Circle' command.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42990[/ATTACH]

 

I guess the question now is

How do I alter the way in which distance is represented in model space?

 

Surely AutoCAD can be used to represent something smaller than 500 metres in diameter .

 

I'm sorry, I had a difficult time trying to explain in my prior post, so I deleted it and started over in another one. I didn't really miss your point, I am having trouble figuring out what it is.

 

Do you see where your limits were set to a rectangle just under 3 x 4 meters? I don't know what AutoCAD will do when you try to draw outside the limits.

 

If your circles look chunky, no matter what their size, simply type regen and hit enter. It's just a screen thing, they always print out fine, just sometimes you get shown the ugly representation when AutoCAD thinks resources need to go somewhere other than on screen.

 

Don't change the "way distances are represented in modelspace". I will guarantee that circle is as big as you asked it to be. Use your Distance command and pick the diameter as your two points. Zoom in. Zoom in.

[Dana W]

Surely AutoCAD can be used to represent something smaller than 500 metres in diameter .

Yes, it can do it, and does it quite well without much prodding at all. You need to look for some of the controls that affect how your drawing objects are represented on your monitor and adjust them. I have no idea what they are called nor how to get to them in 2014. Maybe OPTIONS, and DRAFTING PREFERENCES or something like that. Almost everything in AutoCAD is customizable, including how many line segments are used to represent an arc or circle on the screen. AutoCAD draws in 'vectors' which are straight lines. The more lines in your circle, the rounder it looks. I use 8000. It doesn't tax the machine at all.

[Vagulus]

Yes, it can do it, and does it quite well without much prodding at all. You need to look for some of the controls that affect how your drawing objects are represented on your monitor and adjust them. I have no idea what they are called nor how to get to them in 2014. Maybe OPTIONS, and DRAFTING PREFERENCES or something like that. Almost everything in AutoCAD is customizable, including how many line segments are used to represent an arc or circle on the screen. AutoCAD draws in 'vectors' which are straight lines. The more lines in your circle, the rounder it looks. I use 8000. It doesn't tax the machine at all.

 

I went to Tools -> Options -> Drafting Preferences and adjusted the grid thus:

 

 

With Drawing Units set to metres:

 

 

that tells me that the grid should have minor spacing of 5mm and major spacing of 25mm. Yet, when I draw a circle with radius 25 metres (yes ... 25 metre radius)

 

Command: _circle

Specify center point for circle or [3P/2P/Ttr (tan tan radius)]:

Specify radius of circle or [Diameter] : 25

 

I get

 

 

Can someone please explain how that happens?

I don't know about you, Dana, but it's driving me nuts !!!

 

If the grid is 25mm on major lines and 5mm on the minor ones, how is it that a FIFTY METRE DIAMETER circle is represented as shown?

[Dadgad]

Hi Dana

You miss the point.

 

Firstly, according to the coordinates, the circle was 'dropped' way outside the prescribed limits.

 

Then, consider the screenshot in my earlier posting. That circle is supposed to be 250 metres radius - 500 metres diameter - yet it is so small. If I draw a circle 250mm radius it appears on screen as a dot - one pixel lit. That's hardly useful for including it in a technical drawing. If I zoom in to the point where the 'circle' is a visually comprehensible size all semblance of circularity is gone! Furthermore, A14 now does not respond to the 'Circle' command.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42990[/ATTACH]

 

I guess the question now is

How do I alter the way in which distance is represented in model space?

 

Surely AutoCAD can be used to represent something smaller than 500 metres in diameter .

 

Nope. Sorry you can't draw anything smaller than 500 meters in 2014.

 

Say WHAT?

 

Yes of course I am joking.

 

You might want to use the -DWGUNITS command (include the hyphen),

and it will step you through ensuring that your database drawing units are what you

want them to be. I also work in metric units, but mms, which is the default metric unit

in Autocad, if I am not mistaken. I believe that CIVIL users typically set units to Meters.

What template are you using when you start a drawing?

You may need to go into OPTIONS and set your default QNEW template in the TEMPLATE SETTINGS

link on the FILES tab, to one that ends in ISO. I believe any others will default to Imperial data base units.

 

LIMITS? Dana is right, forget 'em, most everybody else has, long ago.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Dadgad

[Vagulus]

Nope. Sorry you can't draw anything smaller than 500 meters in 2014.

 

Yes of course I am joking.

 

Say what? You might want to use the -DWGUNITS command (include the hyphen),

and it will step you through ensuring that your database drawing units are what you

want them to be. I also work in metric units, but mms, which is the default metric unit

in Autocad, if I am not mistaken.

What template are you using when you start a drawing?

You may need to go into OPTIONS and set your default QNEW template in the TEMPLATE SETTINGS

link on the FILES tab, to one that ends in ISO. I believe any others will default to Imperial data base units.

 

LIMITS? Dana is right, forget 'em, most everybody else has, long ago.

 

What template are you using when you start a drawing?

acad.dwt

 

You may need to go into OPTIONS and set your default QNEW template in the TEMPLATE SETTINGS link on the FILES tab, to one that ends in ISO. I believe any others will default to Imperial data base units.

Okay. I found that and set it to acadiso -named plot styles.dwd

 

NOW WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE!

I notice that the drawing units have defaulted to millimetres.

Still a little puzzled though. The Grid Settings are:

That's X & Y spacing at 10 with major line at 5. However in

 

 

which shows a circle with 25mm radius you can see that the grid spacings are 50mm. Now, I think this is terminological. Does the term "Grid Spacing" refer to an invisible grid to which the circle centre should "Snap"? I.e., where I see "Major line every 5" does that mean the lines on the grid (the light ones as well as the heavier ones) are separated by 5x10 Grid Spacings = 50mm?

[aspitanis]

the grid should have minor spacing of 5mm and major spacing of 25mm. [/i]

 

Drafting Settings -> Grid behavior -> uncheck Adaptive grid

[Dadgad]

That is exactly correct, remember that the drawing database units are now Metric instead of Imperial, and that the major grid lines which you are seeing are only 50 mm apart.

Now if you draw a line of length 1000, it will be one meter long.

Earlier you were only adjusting the INSERT UNITS, which is but one of the numerous pieces of the puzzle.

The -DWGUNITS command pulls all of the different variables together into one more cohesive

set of instructions and options.

I would hate to think what percentage of people doing what they hope is very precise work are absolutely clueless to

much of this, you should create your own custom template, down the road, to include standard layers, dim style, text settings, etc.

Then you can set it to be your default QNEW template.

Glad you feel like you are starting to make some sense of it all.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Dadgad

[Vagulus]

Thanks to Dana and Dadgad for hanging in on this one.

It's funny that both Brian Benton's and Randy Shih's tutorials refer to setting "Drawing Limits" if they are redundant.

Anyway, I think I may be getting somewhere.

The key appears to have been getting an appropriate template - this time something not mentioned in the tutorials.

Cheers

[ReMark]

Very few people worry about or even use GRID and LIMITS. I'd say for the moment that unless you are drawing tic-tac-toe boards or electrical schematics to turn GRID off (use the F7 key). As for LIMITS I would consign that command to the dust bin of CAD and move on to more important things. I don't know why AutoDesk doesn't set the default template file for any piece of their software sold outside of the United States to acadiso.dwt (one of a handful of metric templates). They insist on charging European customers almost twice the price then hamstring the unsuspecting customer by initiating the imperial template. We get countless threads from people who thought they were using metric units when in reality they were not.

[JD Mather]

...

It's funny that both Brian Benton's and Randy Shih's tutorials refer to setting "Drawing Limits" .....

....

 

Personally, I think it is sad. But nearly every book starts out this way.

I took my first CAD class back in '87 of the last century.

The first class the instructor had us setting grid spacing and counting dots like we were 1st graders or working on a sheet of grid paper. No technological defense, only a historical one.

Second class I turned off the grid and resisted all attempts by the instructor to have me turn it back on.

Before the end of the semester I was teaching the class as I had gone far beyond anything the instructor knew about the program.

[ReMark]

And that's ^ ^ ^ how legends are born. Vagulus: You'd do well to follow in JDM's footsteps.

[SLW210]

acad.dwt is the IMPERIAL template. Try setting qnew to one of the ISO templates.