Units change from Unitless

[User2012]

I got a unitless model! So, I changed it to Inches (Format/ Units). However, it does sound like nothing has been changed! Any suggestions!

[Dadgad]

A unitless model's drawing data units will be millimeters (I believe).

It will not scale when inserted into a new drawing because it is defined as unitless.

Treating it as if it was in mms, you need to scale it up by 25.4.

You should also open it in the block editor and change the units in PROPERTIES to INCHES.

In that way in the future it will scale appropriately upon insertion into another drawing,

assuming that the new drawing has the insertion units and target units set properly.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Dadgad

[eldon]

A unitless model's drawing units will be millimeters (I believe).

 

The units could be Light Years. There is no compunction to be millimetres

[Dadgad]

The units could be Light Years. There is no compunction to be millimetres

 

In my case they are millimeters, but I always use ISO templates.

How would you go about determining that then?

 

When I use the -DWGUNITS command these are the only options that i get

 

Command: -DWGUNITS

 

Drawing units:

1. Inches

2. Feet

3. Millimeters

4. Centimeters

5. Decimeters

6. Meters

 

......no mention of anything terribly out of the ordinary, or should I say Cosmic?

[eldon]

In my case they are millimeters, but I always use ISO templates.

How would you go about determining that then?

 

I would examine what was drawn to see if any units made sense.

 

Also a good start is to see what the MEASUREMENT system variable is set to.

 

Just because you use ISO templates, there is a large world out there who do not.

[Dadgad]

I would examine what was drawn to see if any units made sense.

 

Also a good start is to see what the MEASUREMENT system variable is set to.

 

Just because you use ISO templates, there is a large world out there who do not.

 

I should think that there must be a non-deductive way to answer such a query?

Assume that you received a drawing with no dimensions, how would you handle it then?

Just trying to make some sense of this.

[eldon]

I should think that there must be a non-deductive way to answer such a query?

 

I do not do "non-deductive". I regard it as a challenge.

 

But for non-deductive ways, speak to the supplier of the drawing.

[Dadgad]

I would examine what was drawn to see if any units made sense.

 

Also a good start is to see what the MEASUREMENT system variable is set to.

 

Just because you use ISO templates, there is a large world out there who do not.

 

eldon, you've done it again, taught me something new.

I've never heard of the MEASUREMENT system variable, which really surprises me,

as I have spent a fair amount of time in the SYSVDLG box.

I previously thought that there was no way to change the DEFAULT SCALE LIST on the USER PREFERENCES

tab in OPTIONS, from METRIC to IMPERIAL without changing the template or using the -DWGUNITS command.

I am glad to see that there is.

Thanks!

[SLW210]

What in the world is an unitless model? I never heard of such an object, please post an example.

 

Insertion Scale Units have nothing to do with the model you have drawn, clearly stated in your images of the dialog box...Insertion Scale>Units to scale INSERTED content:

 

MEASUREINIT

Controls whether a drawing you start from scratch uses imperial or metric default settings.

 

MEASUREMENT

Controls whether the current drawing uses imperial or metric hatch pattern and linetype files.

 

 

-DWGUNITS is how you should change a current drawing.

[User2012]

Thanks a lot for your comments!

Frankly, I don't understand why the CAD drafter of this model, who has been working for an American company for years, didn't set units to the Inche! Anyway, because this model is the part of a patent design, I have not been allowed to share:oops:!

I just drew sth simple in the environment of the model to show you how the measurements look like (Probably mm)! Meanwhile, I have tried DWGUNITS command, but it was an Unknown Command in my autocad program(See dwg file)!

Sorry for being thick!

UNITLESS_ TEST.dwg

[rickh]

user2012, redo the command but include the dash (-) before it...."-dwgunits"

[User2012]

Now the command is working! Thanks! Meanwhile, I have checked Format> Units: it sounds like the unit has been changed to Inches! But, again the measurements of either the 3D model or any new drawing are not in Inches (see dwg file attached)!

UNITLESS_ TEST.dwg

[Dadgad]

The drawing units of the drawing you have attached already are INCHES.

If you want them to display in inches or feet and inches you can go to your DIMSTYLE MANAGER select MODIFY as shown in the image and adjust the highlighted settings.

I modeled the cube shown as 1000 units to a side, and you can see the measurement in feet and inches is correct.

[Dadgad]

What in the world is an unitless model? I never heard of such an object, please post an example.

 

Since you asked SO nicely, here you go. Drawing database is mms, but the block is unitless.

Unitless 3D Block.dwg

Edited July 25, 2012 by Dadgad

[rickh]

I am guessing when you inserted the block shown, your current drawing had unitless insunits.

 

I think that is just a readout of the INSUNITS as unitless. If I open the block and do a -dwgunits, it shows as millimeters. This will always throw me for a loop though. As you mentioned previously, Dadgad, we can only choose among 6 values for the actual drawing units. However, you can choose a very large number of insunits to "scale inserted content" into the current drawing. And we all hear to match the insunits to the drawing units, which if truly put into practice, would render most of the insunits useless (this would include unitless insunits since it is not a -dwgunits unit). It would seem to me that we should have the option to set the -dwgunits to the same values offered in insunits.

 

Lets say I draw in a drawing where the -dwgunits are Meters but I'm drawing in Lightyears (I just have to tell myself that a value of 1 unit is 1 lightyear, since I can't actually set the -dwgunits to this value). So I set the insunits to Lightyears in this drawing, because I want to scale other peoples' drawings to my Lightyear units. This will work for me as long as the other peoples' drawings are drawn with one of the 6 -dwgunits (if they are, the insunits will scale appropriately to my lightyears). Now, if someone sent me a drawing that they also assumed as Lightyears, there is no way the insunits will know this when I insert it (the -dwgunit is set to one of those pesky 6 and that is what it will scale with). Likewise, no one will be able to scale my Lightyear drawing using their Insunits, because when they do, it will read the -dwgunits of my drawing, not the lightyears that I assumed.

 

Does this make any sense, and is this how the program is working

 

...sorry User2012...not trying to hijack the thread with a tangent. I looked at your drawing also and agree with Dadgad. The units are all set to inches. If it doesn't measure correctly, the drawing objects should be scaled to the correct measurement.

[Dadgad]

I am aware that the drawing data units are millimeters, but those come from the template, not from the model.

When I created and saved the block it was on a metric template, but I saved the block as unitless.

 

This is basically the point which I was addressing with eldon yesterday in post #6.

I love a good puzzle, and am a big fan of deductive reasoning and entertainments, but it seems to me that in software like this,

arriving at a definitive answer shouldn't rely too heavily on deductive reasoning, as it has proven to be rather elusive, even flighty or fickle at times.

 

Just remember, we've all said and or heard it a million times on the forum, and it is true.

DRAW EVERYTHING IN MODELSPACE FULL SIZED ......as crazy as that sounds.

The very long polyline I just drew doesn't even show up on my screen if I zoom extents, but it is there!

I would probably have to give it a width of a million miles before it would show up on the screen

zoomed to extents.

Just don't expect there to still be a lot of dimensional options available once you start using insertion units of lightyears. You can kiss architectural dims goodby!

Edited July 25, 2012 by Dadgad

[rickh]

saved the block as unitless

 

OK, I see now regarding the unitless block. Thanks. That's new to me, even though the option is right in front of my face when making the block...guess I've never thought to change it.

[SLW210]

Unitless is a scale factor, not an indication of the UNIT of measurement in the drawing or used to design the object. Your BLOCK still has UNITS, where is your UNITLESS MODEL?

 

Insertion Scale

Controls the unit of measurement for blocks and drawings that are inserted into the current drawing. A block or a drawing that is created with units that are different from the units specified with this option is scaled when inserted. The insertion scale is the ratio of the units used in the source block or drawing and the units used in the target drawing. Select Unitless to insert the block without scaling it to match the specified units.

 

Insertion scale has little to do with the units of measure you are using in the drawing, it is what it states INSERTION SCALE.

 

In the units Dialog box, set LENGTH to your desired UNITS OF MEASURE.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36141[/ATTACH]

 

 

As previously stated, if these units show the wrong measurement, then you need to scale the model.

 

 

Why are you using an Educational version to work on Patent designs?

[User2012]

Unitless is a scale factor, not an indication of the UNIT of measurement in the drawing or used to design the object. Your BLOCK still has UNITS, where is your UNITLESS MODEL?

 

 

 

Insertion scale has little to do with the units of measure you are using in the drawing, it is what it states INSERTION SCALE.

 

In the units Dialog box, set LENGTH to your desired UNITS OF MEASURE.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36141[/ATTACH]

 

 

As previously stated, if these units show the wrong measurement, then you need to scale the model.

 

 

Why are you using an Educational version to work on Patent designs?

 

 

Just trying to give a hand to a friend of mine!

 

Now everything is working well! Thanx again!

[SLW210]

Good to hear.