Sheet Set Manager - Updating Titleblocks to "existing" sheets?

[tzframpton]

I consider myself somewhat of a guru with the Sheet Set Manager but I think something has me stumped. I've been doing a lot of research online and I cannot find anything so I'm coming to CT Forums. In fact, some of the things I've found online refer that you cannot automatically replace entire Titleblock Templates for existing Sheets in the Sheet Set Manager. So, here's my question:

 

Can you replace all existing Sheets in a Sheet Set with an entirely new Template file automatically, without opening each Sheet and re-inserting the Titleblock?

 

Example:

Let's say I have a Sheet Set. Inside the Sheet Set, I already have 20 sheets created. I then realize that my Template file is missing our company logo. I then have to open the Template file and insert my company logo. Well, this works for all newly created sheets from that point forward, but how can I get this change to automatically populate in the existing 20 Sheets that are already in the Sheet Set?

 

Thanks in advance!!

[BlackBox]

Tannar, I don't *believe* SSM can do this. However a simple script, or even LISP routine (specifically one using ObjectDBX) can. Shouldn't take long at all for the 20 sheets you mention (if that's an accurate count).

[tzframpton]

I was afraid of this. You would think that Autodesk would have something in place. I mean, who here has started a Template that needed an update or be revised later? Just kills me sometimes.

 

The job I'm working on will probably have in the 300+ number for mechanical sheets only, not to mention the rest of the sheets.

[BlackBox]

I'm pretty sure the importing functionality is there, it's the removing the bad title block portion that's the kicker. Perhaps in the future you might benefit from using an XREFed title block to mitigate this situation.

 

In any event, I'm sure you can find a good ObjectDBX routine to use as a "wrapper," that you can simply supply a list of file paths (to the sheets), and then add the necessary code to edit the PaperSpace Block Object (specifically iterating through the Blocks Collection, deleting the existing title block, then inserting the revised, modify layer properties, etc.).

 

If not let me know - I do not have time to code everything per-se, but I can totally give you enough to get you started.

[tzframpton]

I just thought about XREF'ing the Titleblock in just as you posted this. That would definitely help and will probably be a great workaround. Let me try this first and I'll update with my results.

 

[BlackBox]

No worries; good luck.

[Meecad]

Hi StyKFacE,

 

I'm feeling your pain here ( though i don't work through the volume of dwgs you mentioned ). I wonder if/how you overcame this problem? I made the transistion from site to HQ only 8 mths ago and on top of learning AC 2012 LT from scratch, I am designing, revising, and setting out for multiple jobs (20+sheets per job) and there's just to much downtime removing/revising/ TB's, layers, etc...

I'm excited to read there's a faster, more organised way, and keen to acquire some sheet set skills as it will automate the process and free up time for re-design and VE (maybe even a coffee break:)

At present I receive tendered dwgs and work through them one by one. Of course, I will always have to re-design, but its the re-styling and standardising, and shuffling through files, that I would like to improve on.

Unfortunately, having read through that chat between you and RenderMan, there's nothing I can offer as a solution, I'm still in a high-chair in that regard!

[Meecad]

I'm pretty sure the importing functionality is there, it's the removing the bad title block portion that's the kicker. Perhaps in the future you might benefit from using an XREFed title block to mitigate this situation.

 

In any event, I'm sure you can find a good ObjectDBX routine to use as a "wrapper," that you can simply supply a list of file paths (to the sheets), and then add the necessary code to edit the PaperSpace Block Object (specifically iterating through the Blocks Collection, deleting the existing title block, then inserting the revised, modify layer properties, etc.).

 

If not let me know - I do not have time to code everything per-se, but I can totally give you enough to get you started.

 

I'm going to have to read up on this RM, but in the interim is there any way of dumbing this down a peg or 2?

[Dadgad]

Sounds like you would be a good candidate for using the LAYTRANS command, if you work with a number of different vendors, which would probably help you to standardize your layer names, displays and such.

[Meecad]

Thanks Dadgad, I shall give it a whirl and compare the efficiency, and post some feedback

[BlackBox]

I'm going to have to read up on this RM, but in the interim is there any way of dumbing this down a peg or 2?

 

ObjectDBX is an technology that allows us to programmatically interface with AutoCAD drawings without actually opening said drawing(s) in the editor (meaning you cannot see them), and iterating the various Collection Objects as desired using VL* functions (ActiveX) only... there are rules to this... no selections sets, no commands, no prompting the user, no system variable manipulation, etc..

 

All of this, however, is for not in your case - as LT does not support LISP - only macros, and scripts.

 

Sounds like you would be a good candidate for using the LAYTRANS command, if you work with a number of different vendors, which would probably help you to standardize your layer names, displays and such.

 

LAYTRANS Command is highly overlooked by many companies; however, in this specific context - being able to quickly modify multiple drawings in a given sheet set is where this method is less efficient IMO. It really depends on how often the task is necessary, to determine which method is worth the time to prepare, and perform (again IMO).

[Cadologist]

Just adding my comment to the original poster.......

 

What I do is create a drawing with the title block linework, stamps, logos, etc. and XREF that into a sheet set template drawing, to which contains the fielded attributes. So if anything has to change, as in the client's logos, etc. all I have to do is add them to the XREF and done. Another benefit to this is that it allows you to easily remove various stamps that would blanket a project (ie: drawing reduced to half size) prior to using a full size plot override for example.

 

I have used this type of setup on dozens of projects, some with 400+ drawings and utlized across multiple offices. On a side note, the whole 'xref' the title block linework in works great even without sheet sets, it's an easy way to manage your stamps and turn off/turn off entities depending on drawing milestone/progression.

[tzframpton]

Just adding my comment to the original poster.......

 

What I do is create a drawing with the title block linework, stamps, logos, etc. and XREF that into a sheet set template drawing, to which contains the fielded attributes. So if anything has to change, as in the client's logos, etc. all I have to do is add them to the XREF and done. Another benefit to this is that it allows you to easily remove various stamps that would blanket a project (ie: drawing reduced to half size) prior to using a full size plot override for example.

Cadologist I sincerely appreciate your response. This is exactly how I set up my SSM Templates (DWT file with a pathed XREF in place) but where the problem lies is say for instance I need to add a custom sheet-specific SSM Field. If I already have a hundred sheets created, I would have to open each one and add/replace the Field.

 

Hi StyKFacE,

 

I'm feeling your pain here ( though i don't work through the volume of dwgs you mentioned ). I wonder if/how you overcame this problem? I made the transistion from site to HQ only 8 mths ago and on top of learning AC 2012 LT from scratch, I am designing, revising, and setting out for multiple jobs (20+sheets per job) and there's just to much downtime removing/revising/ TB's, layers, etc...

I'm excited to read there's a faster, more organised way, and keen to acquire some sheet set skills as it will automate the process and free up time for re-design and VE (maybe even a coffee break)

At present I receive tendered dwgs and work through them one by one. Of course, I will always have to re-design, but its the re-styling and standardising, and shuffling through files, that I would like to improve on.

Unfortunately, having read through that chat between you and RenderMan, there's nothing I can offer as a solution, I'm still in a high-chair in that regard!

Meecad, be advised that AutoCAD LT 2012 now supports the Sheet Set Manager. But for smaller jobs, check out my post in an earlier thread with a tutorial video I made for the best method of an automated sheets file. Hope this helps.

 

http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?62710-Another-title-block-disaster-(&p=427502&viewfull=1#post427502

[Cadologist]

Oh I see what your getting at..... you probably thought about this but read below and maybe give it a try......

 

Add the sheet-specific SSM field to your .dst custom properties (right-click main .dst name in the AutoCAD SSM, click the edit custom properties button). After that, you could go into your project's .dwt and add that fielded attribute to the existing block that contains all your fields. The next step I am not sure of as I don't have alot of programming experience but it should be possible to run a script on the drawings that could go in and re-defign the block that has the fields in it, in each drawing and then save, for all the existing drawings.

 

That may work, worst case you would have to go into each drawing, delete the fielded block, purge, insert the updated fielded block in and it will auto-populate the fields.

 

I had a similar thing go down but it ended up being easier for me to just restart the project and transfer the data.

 

I wonder if you can just insert a new fielded block into each drawing that would 'know' what to look for as it's field in the current SSM. Would kinda suck to have to go into each of the existing drawings and insert a single block with the sheet-specific SSM field but maybe not to bad for a quick repair for that project anyway.

 

On a side note, good to know someone on here that knows SheetSets as they seem to be one of the most un-utilized functionality within companies that use AutoCAD. The power of SheetSets is incredible.

[tzframpton]

Oh I see what your getting at..... you probably thought about this but read below and maybe give it a try......

 

Add the sheet-specific SSM field to your .dst custom properties (right-click main .dst name in the AutoCAD SSM, click the edit custom properties button). After that, you could go into your project's .dwt and add that fielded attribute to the existing block that contains all your fields. The next step I am not sure of as I don't have alot of programming experience but it should be possible to run a script on the drawings that could go in and re-defign the block that has the fields in it, in each drawing and then save, for all the existing drawings.

 

That may work, worst case you would have to go into each drawing, delete the fielded block, purge, insert the updated fielded block in and it will auto-populate the fields.

 

I had a similar thing go down but it ended up being easier for me to just restart the project and transfer the data.

 

I wonder if you can just insert a new fielded block into each drawing that would 'know' what to look for as it's field in the current SSM. Would kinda suck to have to go into each of the existing drawings and insert a single block with the sheet-specific SSM field but maybe not to bad for a quick repair for that project anyway.

Yeah, thought of that too. I even thought of detaching all sheets from the SSM file, batch-editing each Layout with a script or something, then Importing all Layouts as I am re-creating the DST file from the setup prompts. Just gotta figure out a "non-programming" way of doing it I guess, lol. Basically, you have to know all upfront knowledge of the job first. If you don't, depending on the size of the project you could really be hurting later. Maybe what I should do is not use the SSM until I'm comfortable that I do have all the necessary job information, then when I create the DST file, create all the Sheets, then use Design Center to drag/drop the Layouts into the new "Sheets". Then maybe my Views won't transfer though, ugh.

 

Meh, I dunno. I just wish there was a "batch Field replacement" tool or something. This is exactly why I like Revit more and more these days.

 

On a side note, good to know someone on here that knows SheetSets as they seem to be one of the most un-utilized functionality within companies that use AutoCAD. The power of SheetSets is incredible.

Man, tell me about it. When I first dove in years ago, it seemed more trouble than it was worth but I could understand the intuitive-ness of the logic, so I stuck with it. Now I don't even mess with any other method if it's 5-6 sheets or more. I really love using the SSM in AutoCAD MEP because of the Project Navigator, which further extends the usability and setup of SSM. It's funny how it took Autodesk buying up Revit so they could steal the idea for SSM and Project Navigator for the AutoCAD product line.

[Cadologist]

Basically, you have to know all upfront knowledge of the job first.

 

Very true, I just revamped the company's sheet set template to version 4 and still tweaking things here and there. This is especially important if you create 'client specific' sheet sets or 'project specific' ones.

 

Now I don't even mess with any other method if it's 5-6 sheets or more.

 

It took our office about a solid year to fully transfer to sheet sets, even for small projects like you said, 5-6 pages. The largest I have done as a CAD Lead was a 400+ drawing / 6 office project across the country and it went smoothly. Another nice thing with sheet sets is that if someone 'breaks' something, ie: editing fielded attributes, moving title blocks, etc. it's all 'fixable' without much difficulty. You can always add more plot overrides but yeah, too bad no easy solution to editing the 'core' fields once you have started.

[shichae]

I ran into a similar situation last year, and here's the solution that I did to fix it. What you are looking to do is not possible in SSM, but it is possible to do in another AutoDesk application that comes w/ ACAD. "Reference Manager" is included w/ most ACAD (not sure when it first appeared, but that's a tangent), and allows you to change XREF pointers in multiple files in batches.

 

First and foremost, if your Title Blocks are not XREF'ed, then this solution will not help.

 

Basically, you need to know the file name of your Title Block XREF and the location. Once you know that, you need to create a replacement for your old Title Block in a new location b/c the replacement will have the same name. Copy & Modify or do what is necessary to create a replacement Title Block w/ the same name, and then open Reference Manager (It's in the ACAD Program Folder in both the Windows Start Menu and the Program Files folder as the name AdRefMan.exe). Add the drawings that you are changing the Title Block XREF in, and sort the column "File Name" column. Find the old Title Block XREF's, highlight the drawings you are modifying, and click the "Edit Selected Paths" button. Browse to the new Title Block that you created earlier, and then click the "Apply Changes" button to finalize the changes. Once you've done that, you can open any of the drawings and the XREF will automatically updated during REGEN to point to the new Title Block. Think of this as acting similarly to modifying a block instance, and reinserting it again. If you have added or moved anything that wasn't existing in the old block to the new block, there will be problems, so keep edits to a minimum when it comes to adding attributes. What I did was add extra data for the Revision block on a bunch of drawings, and since this wasn't an editable field on the top level, I had no problems.

 

I hope this helps!

 

^____^

[BlackBox]

... too bad no easy solution to editing the 'core' fields once you have started.

 

Currently Sheet Set Manager (SSM) Object interface has only been exposed to VBA & .NET API's, see Developer Documentation here:

 

Sheet Set Objects Reference