tzframpton Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 I'm on the drafting side. I get flamed by your type while flaming the engineers. I wish more people understood, it's not always us...most of the time, it's what the engineer wants it to look like and despite our hours of arguing that "the field guys would better understand it this way", we get told to do it anyways. Mechanical - If you tell me that you do "Mechanical Engineering", I will always assume machinery-type design. HVAC is flows and associated equipment ... HVAC Engineering ... you're not designing the parts of the units, your picking units to meet your flow criteria. Just to clarify, I don't flame. "We" meant "the trade I'm in". I understand it's impossible to perfect buildings before they hit the bid table of the contractors, unless you are working with unlimited budget and unlimited time frames. Quote
Lee Roy Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 Just to clarify, I don't flame. "We" meant "the trade I'm in". I understand it's impossible to perfect buildings before they hit the bid table of the contractors, unless you are working with unlimited budget and unlimited time frames. LOL, I don't care, it's inherent with the territory. I don't get offended when field guys poke at me, I just point up the ladder and say "He signed it, blame him." I flame, constantly! You're correct, it's impossible, but knowing an industry standard, and doing something different because you "don't like the way it looks" (symbols, callouts, abbreviations, etc), is freaking annoying because I'm the one that gets blamed for it. You're damn right I'm gonna flame you and your ego. (not you, a general 'you' referencing a certain engineer) Quote
JD Mather Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 I haven't seen anybody use those symbols in years and years. If I were to call that out on something' date=' I'd use a leader with this note: DR. 0.070 DIA (#50)~0.200 DP. TAP 2-56 UNC -3B~0.172 DP. [/quote'] The symbols are current ANSI standard - words (or abbreviations of words are out). Modern MCAD (Mechanical CAD) programs like Autodesk Inventor automatically add the symbols to things like counterbore, countersink and thread notes when dimensioning. I'll try to post some screen shots when I get a chance. Quote
Jack_O'neill Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 The symbols are current ANSI standard - words (or abbreviations of words are out).Modern MCAD (Mechanical CAD) programs like Autodesk Inventor automatically add the symbols to things like counterbore, countersink and thread notes when dimensioning. I'll try to post some screen shots when I get a chance. Oh I believe you. All of my current customers have their own standards that they've used forever and what I used as an example is how most of them have such call outs specified. One of them even says that "the use of cryptic symbols other than those defined on the leadsheet should be avoided". They've only been in business for a little over a century, and seem to think their way works for them. Of course, they are the customer I've made mention of in the past of having to save down to 2004 format. As long as they keep writing good checks, I will call it out in pig latin if thats what they want. Quote
JD Mather Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 ...the use of cryptic symbols... The concept is that the symbols can be (?) understood across languages whereas words (or abreviations) like C'bore, C'sink, DP, TYP (TYPICAL) are not language neutral. But hey, here in the US we still use mostly imperial rather than metric. If only Jimmy Carter had mandated that speed limit signs were ONLY metric rather than dual dimension (MPH/KPH) we would have had a world standard long ago. It is the conversion (translation) between starndards that causes problem. Didn't take long to get a feel for 2Liter. The symbols in the first two rows are mostly added automatically as the software knows a counter bored hole is a counter bored hole, but of course manual editing can be used as needed. For symbols not in the common GDT list there is a link to the Windows Character Map for quick access. I might also add that in the modern MCADs (like SolidWorks) they are units aware - that is if units mm is added to magnitude the software knows that - can enter mixed unit equations like 10in + 30mm or whatever appropriate units added the magnatude and the geometry reflects the desired units entry. Make fitting things like metric motors to old inch equipment much less error prone as conversions not needed - the software takes care of units. Quote
Dana W Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 Would cheering for the Cowboys make me a fan? Confused. No, cheering for the Cowboys would make you a dolt.:lol: Hail to the Redskins.... Quote
Dana W Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 I'm in mechanical engineering and I utterly HATE that so much crap is considered "Mechanical Engineering". E: "A package air conditioner is, by definition an air handler........... That was part of yesterdays daily give-the-engineer-an-aneurysm conversation. +1 on the Awsome. By the way, your new sig top line crack me up. Quote
JD Mather Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 No, cheering for the Cowboys would make you a dolt. I guess that's better than a Colt? Pittsburg Steelers Quote
Lee Roy Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 Hail to the Redskins.... That makes you a fencepost. My 49ers (4-1) are going to beat my gf's Lions (5-0) this Sunday. We'll be at B-Dubs in our team gear yelling at each other. lol +1 on the Awsome. By the way, your new sig top line crack me up. Thank you. Quote
Dana W Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 Aw shucks you guys. I've never had the pleasant experience of working with either mech or eng types. With me it's always been the Architect is a big #$%^^&. Quote
Dana W Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) I guess that's better than a Colt? There's a diff? (Indianapolis Colts that is (0 & 5 Colts = Dolts, see? Get it?) Edited October 15, 2011 by Dana W to clear up the reference. Quote
Tankman Posted October 14, 2011 Author Posted October 14, 2011 No, cheering for the Cowboys would make you a dolt.:lol: Hail to the Redskins.... I had a Mr. Riggins game jersey hangin' in my closet..........I think an Eastern Shoreman ripped me off and my bottle of Tidewater too! He really wanted it, enjoy. What kind of horse is your avatar Dana? Is it a dolt? Quote
Jack_O'neill Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 The concept is that the symbols can be (?) understood across languages whereas words (or abreviations) like C'bore, C'sink, DP, TYP (TYPICAL) are not language neutral. But hey, here in the US we still use mostly imperial rather than metric. If only Jimmy Carter had mandated that speed limit signs were ONLY metric rather than dual dimension (MPH/KPH) we would have had a world standard long ago. It is the conversion (translation) between starndards that causes problem. Didn't take long to get a feel for 2Liter. The symbols in the first two rows are mostly added automatically as the software knows a counter bored hole is a counter bored hole, but of course manual editing can be used as needed. For symbols not in the common GDT list there is a link to the Windows Character Map for quick access. I might also add that in the modern MCADs (like SolidWorks) they are units aware - that is if units mm is added to magnitude the software knows that - can enter mixed unit equations like 10in + 30mm or whatever appropriate units added the magnatude and the geometry reflects the desired units entry. Make fitting things like metric motors to old inch equipment much less error prone as conversions not needed - the software takes care of units. I in fact agree that the symbols are universal, but I didn't write their standards and they didn't ask me. There are a lot of companies that will run out and buy the latest and greatest, whether its cad/cam software, the latest fad in accreditation, LED light bulbs...whatever. There are a great many more that plod a long and upgrade occasionally. There are others that upgrade only when they absolutely have to, and still a few that don't at all. I have one customer that is using the last version of Mechanical Desktop that was published, and has vowed never to upgrade again. It does everything they need, and that's all they will ever use as long the company belongs to the same guy. They don't trade drawings with anybody, they redraw every customer print they get no matter what format its in, and they turn about $10million a year profit with less than 100 employees. You think they will listen if you tell them they are doing it wrong? They have one CNC mill in their tool room, with a row of conventional Bridgeport mills, 2 lathes, and 2 surface grinders. The company that has the "cryptic symbols" note in their standard is a huge corporation spread out on 3 continents with locations in 9 states, several in Canada, and all over Europe and Asia. They write their own standards, even in many cases their own software and do things their own way. You conform, or you don't do business with them. This is one reason I have to save down to 2004. There are other things like polyline width and and some weird scaling that they use to accommodate some proprietary software in manufacturing to extract data from the drawings. It will not read a newer drawing format, and they will not pay what the programmer wants to fix it. You can draw in any system you want from StarTrekcad to Paint, but before you submit it, its gotta be to that standard or you don't get paid till it is. Quote
Organic Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 You can draw in any system you want from StarTrekcad to Paint' date=' but before you submit it, its gotta be to that standard or you don't get paid till it is.[/quote'] That is how a lot of companies operate, especially government/state owned ones. Quote
Dana W Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 I had a Mr. Riggins game jersey hangin' in my closet..........I think an Eastern Shoreman ripped me off and my bottle of Tidewater too!He really wanted it, enjoy. What kind of horse is your avatar Dana? Is it a dolt? What kinda horse? :ouch: What, are you an Eagles fan or something? That's my 2 year old female Pit Bull, Daisy. She's in her classic "You talkin ah me?" pose. Would you like her to come up there and illustrate the major differences between Pit Bulls and Horses? Difference #1 is when a horse bites you, you can usually pull what's left, out of its mouth. Quote
Tankman Posted October 15, 2011 Author Posted October 15, 2011 Daisy's big enough to be a horse! Beautiful girl! Sorry, Giants fan. Born 'n raised NYC but, have relatives on the Eastern Shore. Love it there! If it doesn't have anything to do with fishin', forget about it! Quote
rkent Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 I always thought it was a horse myself! That is a pretty girl you have there. Quote
Dana W Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Daisy's big enough to be a horse! Beautiful girl! Sorry, Giants fan. Born 'n raised NYC but, have relatives on the Eastern Shore. Love it there! If it doesn't have anything to do with fishin', forget about it! Daisy says "Tanks!" She's not all that big, though. female Pits are usually much smaller than the males, she's only 50 lbs., but it's all solid as a rock, especially her big mellon head. Quote
Dana W Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 I always thought it was a horse myself! That is a pretty girl you have there. That's why I keep my browser on 125%, so these old eyes won't confuse your beautiful greyhound for a velociraptor or something. Quote
Jack_O'neill Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Here's a white horse, just in case someone needs to compare and see the difference Sorry...just couldn't resist! Quote
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