Geometric softwares and ACAD, what is the pros and cons?

[khoshravan]

I am a fan of geometry. Mostly because of aiding my daughter (junior high school) to better understand geometry questions?!

 

First I started with AutoCAD and draw the drawings of her problems. Drawing shapes precisely, helps a lot to solve the problem. Later I find out that it is hard for her use ACAD. Then I searched the Internet and find out that there are many software specially designed for this purpose. I choose a one-month free one, Cabri II Plus (http://www.cabri.com). It is simple, easy to use, but I figured out that it is not easy to draw with measurement (or at least I couldn't find) and it is a minus for that. You can see a screen shot in the attached photo.

 

Now I have shift back to acad.

In order to make it usable for my daughter, I want to define some macros, assign icons for them for drawing a triangle, median, angle bisector, ortholine, bisecting ortholine and many other things.

 

For myself it is much easier to use ACAD for this purpose but It is not built for this purpose but I think as far as I know and satisfies me, there is no problem.

 

On the other hand, other software are not this much accurate and takes time for me to master.

But I think ACAD is not proper for school students. I think the solution lies on the magic of Macros and LISP routines.

 

I am wondering how many college students uses ACAD for solving their geometry homework?

 

Is there any site to give some addins or library of LISP codes for geometric drawings?

 

I will be glad to hear your experience of using other software for geometric drawing purposes.

 

 

[Organic]

I am wondering how many college students uses ACAD for solving their geometry homework?

 

Zero. You can't use AutoCad in most college exams (or any software normally as computers are not permitted in any college exams I am aware of). Computer software (i.e. MatLab & Maple are two math programs capable of geometry) can be useful for checking your answer, althoguh you still need to know how to do it manually by hand as that is what they will be tested on.

 

But I think ACAD is not proper for school students. I think the solution lies on the magic of Macros and LISP routines.

 

As above. The best way to help her would be to help her draw them herself using pen and paper and to solve using normal trigonometry/geometry laws/circle geometry etc.

[SLW210]

They do allow the use of graphing calculators at schools, at least here in the US. I wish I could have been so lucky. I never did any AutoCAD for geometry, algebra, triginometry or calculus. She should be happy she doesn't have to learn the slide rule. Understanding the formulae and how/where it applies is all that is needed. Modern graphing calculators will store the formulae. I had to memorize them all, I think that is why I now cannot remember anything.

[khoshravan]

Zero. You can't use AutoCad in most college exams

 

I am not talking about exams. I am talking about homework. Some drawings in geometry is so complicated that is almost impossible to draw by hand. Beside preciseness plays important role in solving the problems.

 

Computer software (i.e. MatLab & Maple are two math programs capable of geometry) can be useful for checking your answer

Maybe I can Mathematica to your list of software.

 

So far I am not supporting the idea of using pen and pencil. The era has changed and these days kids doesn't accept it where there is a better way, more precise and neat-looking. After they will use computer later and why start from early time.

[ReMark]

And when all those electronic gadgets fail how then will they solve the problem?

 

Archimedes didn't have graphing calculators or CAD to solve problems and look at what he did.

[nestly]

If it's math class, using AutoCAD to solve the problem defeats the purpose.

[JD Mather]

I have my students use CAD extensively to analyze geometry problems both for homework and exams. They always have access to computers. I use Autodesk Inventor but plain vanilla AutoCAD now has geometry constraints (vertical, horizontal, perpendicular, tangent, coincident (not to be confused with osnaps)) and parametric dimensions. (for me constraints and parameters are much cleaner and easier to use in Inventor since Inventor was created with that format while this functionality was added to AutoCAD when it was already an ancient product in computer terms and a bit clunky in my opinion)

 

I home schooled my daughter in trig and geometry using this method.

She started college at age 14.

[JD Mather]

If it's math class, using AutoCAD to solve the problem defeats the purpose.

 

I don't understand how.

Verifing a formula solution with a graphical representation (and the reverse) always made it make more sense to me.

Maybe that is why so many students have trouble with math - it was always presented in abstract form rather than concrete form.

 

I recommend reading Mindstorms: Children, Computers and Powerful Ideas by Seymour Papert, Inventor of Turtle Graphics and Lego Logo.

 

Also, The Children's Machine: Rethinking School in the Age of the Computer, by Papert (I added the bold)

 

Quote - "...math was taught as a dead subject..." ..."A dignified mathematics for children cannot be something we permit ourselves to inflict on children, like unpleasent medicine, although we see no reason to take it ourselves."

 

I see nearly every design program doing the same thing - that is the way the instructor learned to do it - so that is part of the basics needed to understand the field. Hogwash! Obsolete methods used with the only defense a historical one, not a technological one.

 

 

These books were written in the last century, but if you look past some of the technological changes we easily recognize - you would think they were written last year.

 

Example: QUERTY keyboard. Do you know why the keys are arranged they way the are?

Only a historical defense (huge number of people schooled in using inefficient layout) that makes changing to a more efficient keyboard very difficult. Design (CAD) is taught as though we are still on the pencil and paper drawing board.

[nestly]

I didn't say anything about verifying the result, I said: "If it's math class, using AutoCAD to solve the problem* defeats the purpose."

* emphasis added to reflect the original intent

 

Also, from the OP's 1st post

 

I am wondering how many college students uses ACAD for solving their geometry homework?

[JD Mather]

"If it's math class, using AutoCAD to solve the problem* defeats the purpose."

* emphasis added to reflect the original intent

 

And I said - I don't understand that point.

[DANIEL]

Example: QUERTY keyboard. Do you know why the keys are arranged they way the are?

Only a historical defense (huge number of people schooled in using inefficient layout) that makes changing to a more efficient keyboard very difficult. Design (CAD) is taught as though we are still on the pencil and paper drawing board.

 

I feel that CAD should be looked at like a video game from an operations stand point, purhaps one day it will come with default sound effects like lasers....

[ReMark]

QWERTY...

 

Something to do with letter-pair frequency wasn't it?

[JD Mather]

QWERTY...

 

Something to do with letter-pair frequency wasn't it?

 

Nope, that is what it should be but isn't.

On the first typewriters the typists quickly became too fast and the keys (arm linkages) would jam up, so the inventor layed out the keyboard specifically to slow down the typist to accomodate the problems with the technology.

[khoshravan]

I have my students use CAD extensively to analyze geometry problems both for homework and exams.

May I ask, what do you teach?

 

I use Autodesk Inventor but plain vanilla AutoCAD now has geometry constraints (vertical, horizontal, perpendicular, tangent, coincident (not to be confused with osnaps)) and parametric dimensions.

What is the usage of geometry constraints in drawing/solving geometric problems? Could you please explain a bit more?

[Organic]

I am not talking about exams. I am talking about homework. Some drawings in geometry is so complicated that is almost impossible to draw by hand. Beside preciseness plays important role in solving the problems.

 

If it is set as homework and doesn't explicitly state that a graphics calculator or computer is needed to solve it, then you should be able to solve it with just pen and paper. How well you draw it shouldn't really matter if it is labelled correctly (parallel lines, perpindicular, angles/bearing etc).

 

So far I am not supporting the idea of using pen and pencil. The era has changed and these days kids doesn't accept it where there is a better way, more precise and neat-looking. After they will use computer later and why start from early time.

 

It depends on the application I guess. I'm not a fan of graphics claculators, althoguh I do like computer mathematics software. If it is a geometry problem or something relatively simple, then I just solve it by hand. However if it involves solving a set of linear equations with several unknowns, then I'd use either Excel or Matlab, likewise for anything more than a 3x3 matrix.