Why Use Paper Space?

[muddbutter]

A drafter friend of mine gives me a hard time because I don't use paper space. I work for a land surveyor and we have always just used model space. We have title blocks for every scale and sheet size that we use. We just copy what ever title block we need and place it in the drawing. It's very simple.

 

Can you tell me why paper space is better? All my friend can tell me is that, "not using paper space is stupid."

[dbroada]

I can't but I am sure we will both get told off. I have yet to see a convincing reason to change.

[Tiger]

This has been discussed before, both factfully and emotionally - I am sure you can find threads about it if you search enough.

 

I just want to say like I say to the kids when they don't want eat my cooking (grumble grumble) if you haven't tried it, you are not allowed to say that you don't like it.

[Tankman]

For the longest time I didn't use paperspace. Today, I use paperspace always!

[dbroada]

OK, I have tried it but still can't see any advantages.

[Tiger]

OK, I have tried it but still can't see any advantages.

 

Now that's okey - if you don't like spinach I will only force it down your throat once

[rkent]

A drafter friend of mine gives me a hard time because I don't use paper space. I work for a land surveyor and we have always just used model space. We have title blocks for every scale and sheet size that we use. We just copy what ever title block we need and place it in the drawing. It's very simple.

 

Can you tell me why paper space is better? All my friend can tell me is that, "not using paper space is stupid."

 

With PS you only need one title block, say 36x24 and you don't ever scale it. Plotting is easy because you already know the size of the extents of PS. With viewports you can show as much or as little of the model as you want. Multiple layouts are possible and easy to do. You can have enlarged partial plans with another viewport without having to copy, trim, scale, etc. With the later releases there are overrides for the viewports so it is easy to plot two viewports (or more) with completely different colors, lineweights, etc. I like the separation of model and ps objects so when I xref a sheet into another I am not getting the title block, keyed notes, dimensions, etc.

 

If the model is really large then you can have multiple layouts showing a portion of the model. You can have odd shaped viewports so only the portion of the model you want shown will show up. You can even have holes in the viewport with an enlarged view showing in the hole. When plotting there is a scale lineweight button, especially good for reduced size drawings.

 

There are methods using just model space to do the same thing as above, using one file for a model and xrefing it into a 36x24 sheet, scaling it down, using xclip to hide areas, etc.

[ReMark]

All of our process piping and instrumentation diagrams as well as process flow diagrams are in model space exclusively. This is probably due to the fact that at the time the majority were transferred from paper to CAD model space was the only environment to work in. Many of our process building layouts were done the same way. Thus, one created a drawing much like they would "on the board". Everything got scaled to fit the paper it was ultimately going to appear on.

 

Most of our fabrication drawings are done using layouts (which give us access to paper space). Why? Primarily this is due to the number of details done at different scales. Thus, we can have ten different details, each done at a different scale and when it comes time to plot we do so from our layout at 1:1. No real thinking involved.

 

I think your choice may also depend on whether you share drawings with other firms. We normally do not. All drawings are done for in-house purposes. If I have to send a drawing to an outside consultant I always provide a written rundown on how the drawing was created so there are no surprises.

 

Each to his own.

[KJB]

From one surveyor to another, by utilizing paperspace you should never have to break geomerty and yet maintain everything on datum.

[rkmcswain]

OK, I have tried it but still can't see any advantages.

 

A couple....

 

1. Your page setup is always the same. I suppose some disciplines can always work at 0,0, but in the Civil world, you have to work in the coordinates of the work being done.

 

2. You don't have to physically break or copy geometry to show MS views at different scales.

 

3. SSM only works with layouts.

 

4. You can dimension in the layout, which has its own advantages.

[rkent]

And when drawing a 3d model PS is invaluable in displaying the various views.

[JD Mather]

There is only one correct way.

[tzframpton]

And it's really hard to utilize the PUBLISH command using Saved Plot Configurations in Modelspace. rkent and mcswain have said it all, really.

 

Best thing to do is set up a few templates relating to the size of Titleblock. I have one template for each of 42"x30", 36"x24", 24"x18", and 11"x8.5" sized Titleblocks, already saved in Paperspace with lots of pre-existing placement of text and other parameters to streamline the process.

[eldon]

There is only one correct way.

 

So says the Professor.

[muddbutter]

Awesome! Thanks for the input everyone. I'll tinker with it and see how it goes.

[ReMark]

Once you get beyond the fact that you should be drawing everything in model space at full size and that once you make the jump into your layout you'll have to create viewports and assign a scale it's pretty easy. I think dimensioning and text, where to place them (model space or in the layout) is the biggest hurdle to overcome.

[kuwento_mo]

I had just been few weeks now with Autocad and had started off with the model space I had enjoyed it using it that way . However, I shared a a drawing with my friends and they had difficulty plotting. I was wondering why?

 

I later found out that I had not specified a PS parameters, whew!! I had difficulty with adjusting with such, it is changing my paradigm and getting bored with it.

 

That is the reason I was searching thread the pros and cons and gone through with this thread and found the proper way. Well, just like the other guys who jump to it ...and started at which we are comfortable and the wrong way and later it hard to get it off. As they say "Bad habit are hard to get off" or am I one of those old dogs who hardly learn new tricks.

[dbroada]

A couple....

 

1. Your page setup is always the same. I suppose some disciplines can always work at 0,0, but in the Civil world, you have to work in the coordinates of the work being done.

 

2. You don't have to physically break or copy geometry to show MS views at different scales.

 

3. SSM only works with layouts.

 

4. You can dimension in the layout, which has its own advantages.

I think you make my point very well...

 

1. 90% of my drawings are circuit diagrams so are ALWAYS (unless drawn wrong) at 0,0 and even the mechanical drawings are not difficult to place right.

 

2. I cannot remember the last time anyone here needed two views at different scales.

 

3. Ok I'll give you this. What is SSM?

 

4.Again our work has few dimensions so not really of great importance.

 

I'm not saying using PS is wrong but us MS people get told so often that we are doing it wrong when for some disciplines there is no overwhelming advantage.

[rkmcswain]

I think you make my point very well...

 

1. 90% of my drawings are circuit diagrams so are ALWAYS (unless drawn wrong) at 0,0 and even the mechanical drawings are not difficult to place right.

 

2. I cannot remember the last time anyone here needed two views at different scales.

 

3. Ok I'll give you this. What is SSM?

 

4.Again our work has few dimensions so not really of great importance.

 

I'm not saying using PS is wrong but us MS people get told so often that we are doing it wrong when for some disciplines there is no overwhelming advantage.

 

I'm not saying one way is wrong and one way is right either. All I'm saying is that you can't make the decision unless you are informed.

I see a lot of people that could benefit from using layouts but refuse to because "we never used them before..." -or- "we don't need that..." -or- some other excuse without even evaluating reasons to do so..

 

1. So you can insert your title block at 0,0 and at a certain scale and then create a page setup that fits this area.. If so, good. Few things are more time wasteful than people picking a "window" to plot from in MS each time..

3. SSM = Sheet Set Manager, for us, probably the best addition to AutoCAD in the last 10 years.

[BIGAL]

Try plotting a 4.00km long winding road using MS and optimize the layouts in turns of re-orientating the sheets to reduce white space and sheet no's.

 

A simple big advantage hinted above is the ability to use a different ucs in every layout tab but your drawing is always still in as surveyed co-ordinates. The ability to independantly turn layers on and off in vports has huge advantages in big projects.

 

1st sheet would be an overall plot then following sheets would be at desired scale no duplication or xrefing. We could never go back to the old days of 10 sheets in MS.

 

Also use layout tabs and you can change plot output instantly and every plot comes out without thinking about wether you have picked the right window.

 

On a personal note a p&Id drafty senior in age swore that there was no way Cad was going to be better for him compared to a board, after about 4 months he made a point of apologising to us, how now he would never go back to a board again because he was so much quicker. All of us learn something new about the software all the time and thats why forums like this a great.