convert 2d L-shaped to 3d rendering

[jalba]

Hi

 

I did a two dimensional layout of a L-shaped curtain wall, which i like to now rendered in three dimensional form. However, I am not getting the correct result.

 

Can anybody please assist?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

PS: the squares within the diagram represent glass panes which have to recess about 1" in.

andre.dwg

[ReMark]

How thick is the frame that holds the glass panes?

 

Did you know that some of your windows are 1" wider than other windows?

[jalba]

it's 2 x 4 framing.

[ReMark]

I'm guessing you want the frame to be a solid. That means you will have to join up individual lines using the Pedit command then extrude them. You'll also have to create then extrude the panes of glass. It appears you use at least two different size window panes on the longer of the two walls. This is what it would look like in Conceptual visual style. I recessed the panes 1".

 

[ReMark]

Close-up of upper left-hand corner of frame showing pane.

 

[MikeScott]

2" x 4" absolute? or as in standard 2x4 lumber?

 

Does the glass project into the frame? If so, how far? If not, how is the glass actually mounted?

 

Also, how thick is your glass, is it double-paned? Or is it like a 1 inch recess on one side, and 2.75 recess on the far side (meaning a 1/4" nominal glass thickness)?

 

Also, is there visible gasketing that should be represented? or removable glass stops of some kind, or is it non-removable glass and non-gasketed?

 

Will the frame be sanded/painted or welded/polished to hide the cross seams? If not, are we talking about butt-fit or mitered corners and intersections.

 

Just trying to help you clarify a bit. It's more detail than many might need, but it depends how closely it'll be looked at.

 

If the glass is transparent, and you're looking close you'll see that the frame is faked, unless the true system is shown. It'd be good enough for a stylized background concept, but if I were trying to sell it as a true representation, I'd have as many details as possible, to ensure no one complains about the finished product.

 

Otherwise they have leverage.. claiming that the product didn't look as promised by the rendering, so they want a refund or discount. I run into that once in awhile.. or I used to.. now I'm covered by strong disclaimers, and also get pretty detailled.

[ReMark]

I've seen 2x4 extruded aluminum frames. We've used this system for the glass wall of one of our building lobbies.

[jalba]

to *ReMark*

 

I just took a peek at your rendering, and yeah, you got the idea. Just wished there was a simpler way. You know, like how SketchUp will have it in such a way, where once you have an enclosed area on a face, you just use push/pull, and the recess is automatically created.

 

to *MikeScott*

the framing's a basic 2 x 4 frame, with the glass (1/4" thk) going in about 1".

And as we are talking glass, is there a way to make it semi-transparent so that it'll get a almost glass look?

[ReMark]

I suppose you could use Press/Pull as well.

[jalba]

yeeehh, but it doesn't work as well

[ReMark]

I'm sorry but I didn't do the programming for AutoCAD. What else can I tell you? There is no magic button to push here. You're just going to have to grind it out. I did it for the example I posted and you'll have to do it for the real thing.

[MikeScott]

I had to go back and add the black gasket lines in photoshop, because it just didn't look finished without it.

 

You can also see some (not all) of the seams and the glassblocking created in a standard storefront styled framing system. This is representative of an anodized aluminum frame system.

 

For the record, the background image is a photograph (from a salesman.. taken at a poor angle.. lower left corner has a handrail in it) that I used as a material on a rectangle about 12 inches beyond the transparent glass.

 

I also tucked a lightsource outside the window, aligned with the face of the rectangle. It shined into and on, the edge of the frame from a similar direction, providing "gleams" along the frame edge that were designed to be "extra bright", because it's the glassback wall of a cab whose lighting was significantly less than the light of the lobby. I also threw a light from high front, just to flesh it out and give the handrail a shadow.

 

If you want fully transparent glass, consider putting something behind it.. even if it's just a generic white wall/floor corner, about 2-3 feet beyond it with a shadow hitting it. I wouldn't use a shadow of the frame though.. the glass doesn't shadow nicely in most Ray-traced renders.

 

Although you COULD render twice, and use the shadow from a render with no glass, and photoshop it into the image that HAS glass instead.

 

 

@jalba - Cheat by making a piece of glass that's big enough to cross through every space the glass will be. Then set the view and UCS to the face of the object and use the move command to "lift" it to where you want it (move command.. basepoint 0,0,0 and 0,0,1 for the second point would race the face by 1 inch from where it's at.. or 0,0,-1 to drop it away from you.)

 

Or make one piece of glass to fit one hole, and then copy it around the drawing until all the spaces are filled.

 

Ideally, you'd make two frames.. the visible side, and the other side for the opposite face of the glass for shading purposes... then you could fake transparency by simply not having any glass, and making the back frame seem slightly darker or lighter.. you could also add some very light clouding/reflections in photoshop.

 

To get real transparency, you'll need to render the image with the transparency on.

 

I'd draw one vertical frame piece, and then copy it repeatedly to get the wall. Then rotate one to do the horizontals. It's easiest to have a line framework for alignment to give you moving points (filters, like end points and intersections)

 

You've not indicated if you needed correct seams or not, so assuming you don't, just "Union" the whole frame and then do the glass as one big plane, and lift it/lower it like I noted above.

 

Should go quickly, with only the render taking any real time. Assign materials (I use by layer), and go for it.

[jalba]

hmmm.....look like i got something new to experiment with. Never played with rasters before.

 

I'll let u guys know how much i fail lol

[MikeScott]

I messed around the other day and made this one in AutoCAD2004. I couldn't open your file, because of the version you saved it in.

 

The wood board behind it was just kinda' random, and so is the viewing angle/ perspective settings. It's 1" recessed glass in a (2x4) frame. In retrospect, I should have relocated the board so that it's edges were visible in the glass, but I didn't think about that while setting up the shot.

 

 

I toyed with how transparent the glass was and liked this setting. Initially, at 100% transparency, there was very little clue to the fact there's any glass there. The coloring here reminded me of a tinted partition a friend had at his condo's pool, and I kinda' went with that.

 

I used an existing drawing file of mine that happened to use 6 light sources on that project. So there's 6 low-powered halogen lights hitting it, creating artificial "non-warm spots" on it. I don't think they look good on this particular rendering, but not bad for just throwing it together quickly.

 

The frame's material "skin" is a JPG I grabbed that has a gradient on it. (actually, it's the same one I used on the handrail in the image above this one).

[Bill Tillman]

Howdy, I speak curtain wall here. Been doing it since we drew things on a green vinyl drawing board and used mechanical pencils. AutoCAD blew all that away.

 

I do 3D of systems with glass all the time. I have found that it's best to draw your profiles (extrusions) and make them simple if you can, but using the die drawings speeds things up, just slows down the render process. But that's another subject. I've also found that when applying materials it's best to use the default clear glass in the material property box. Other settings will work but just to get a good appearance for glass this is the fastest and easiest way I've found.

[MikeScott]

Very nice!

 

You said draw the extrusion or use "die drawings"? What are die drawings?

 

The glass looks great, I guess I should pay more attention to the library.. I checked it for metal once, but since I was disappointed, and I get stuck importing specified laminate images all the time, I never thought to check for other stuff.

 

I was making sure it looked like standard, leaded glass, because the white glass is expensive. By showing the green tint, the client can ask for glass without that tint and we can reprice it. However, if you don't show it, they dont think about it until it's all been installed, and are sometimes disappointed with it. Interior decorators tend to flip out.. "the quote said clear glass! that's green-tinted!"

 

Stuff like white backpainted glass has come back to bite me when they were looking for a true white, rather than a seafoam color. I use the renderings to warn them of that kinda thing. That and seams in metal, plus grain direction changes, etc.. I highlight the defects that might concern them, so there's no question that they know what they're getting.

 

Also, your rails.. is there a map on them, or is that just "global" on a light grey? Simple, yet elegant.

 

What kind of lighting did you use? Your shadows are going to a vanishing point, yet I don't see any reflected glares from the lighting?

 

It's a great rendering, and reminds me of one of the airsides at Tampa International Airport.

[Bill Tillman]

Thanks. This is just a trifle. I did it while sitting in a hotel room one night for a meeting the next morning with a client in St. Petersburg, FL. You and I were practically neighbors at that point. And I'm bidding a curtain wall project at Tampa airport as we speak.

 

To answer your question on "dies", the aluminum tube parts for the vertical mullions in a curtain wall or storefront system are extruded through a press and the cross section of some of these are really quite complex. There are screw races for assembling the parts together, track for blinds of other accessories and sometimes just extra nubs to increase the strength of the finished product. When the aluminum is extruded the push it through a round plate which has the pattern for the finished extrusion in it. This plate is what is called a "Die" and the drawings to manufacture such a plate are called the die drawings. I often cheat when make my models by copying the die drawing and then making it into a solid and then extruding it in AutoCAD.

 

I didn't use any fancy materials with this rendering. Like I said I did it in less than 30 minutes, even though it took an hour to render on my laptop. But it went over well in the meeting the next morning with the client. That's what I like so much about renderings. You can see what your client wants to build before you build it for them.

 

As for lighting I just used the default settings with the Sky+Illumination on and chose a nice viewing angle for it.

[MikeScott]

Very cool, and thanks for the answers!

 

Hey have you ever done any Renders of curtain wall like that and had the "real world" picture from the same or similar angle, to compare it to? I'd love to see it if you've got one.

 

Oh, and good luck with your bid. It's a big small world.