CTB. vs STB. plot styles

[Cad64]

You should always Etransmit when sending files. It just makes everyone's lives so much easier.

[Cadfused]

You should always Etransmit when sending files. It just makes everyone's lives so much easier.

 

In my old place of employment, that was what we would do. Where I am now, there are a lot of "Old dogs" (excuse the terminology) that don't want to learn new tricks, even if it means making things a lot simpler in the long run. I prefer it, myself, for the sake of consistency between all of the disciplines when printing, but it is hard to get others on board. I'm in the process of working with another two guys in my current work place to streamline the cad systems and get things organized and push some of these wonderful options that CAD has to simplify lives. I'm not one to typically force ideas on a person but some things just need to be done to make a business more efficient and save man-hours in the process.

[ML0940]

Hey Cadfused,

 

I do not work in a multi-discipline office; it is a multi office but we are now using the same resources; I guess that does make it a lot easier.

 

Having said that, I agree totally with CAD64, using ETransmit is the best way of sending all drawing related sources in one package, it use to be called Pack and Go, I think.

 

Therefore, if you did a test ETransmit to yourself or someone in your office to test it, you'd find that all of the resources nec. for that drawing should be included.

 

Now the problem (specifically) that you are having is not that cut and dry; first of all, if your original drawing was done in CTB, then no plot styles exist yet for that drawing as you can see below the plotsyle in your layers dialog box, it is grayed out and it says, Color_1,Color_2 and so on.

 

So, the first thing I would do is, copy the original ctb file, then in acad, type convertctb, then you will be prompted to pick an existing .ctb file. it will then make an .stb file with the same name

 

After the ctb file is converted to stb, the stb file will say style_1, style_2 etc. So, if your ctb had color red (1), the converted file will show as style_1 and so on.

 

Then, in the CTB drawing (assuming you want to convert the drawing) you will type convertpstyles, you will then be prompted for your stb file. After you select your stb file, you will get this message

Drawing converted from Color Dependent mode to Named plot style mode.

 

Now, the drawing will still have your original Red, Green, Blue, Cyan etc colors in the layer dialog box but you will see Style_1, Style_2, respectfully.

 

So, that is really it, not too much involved as far as converting ctb files and drawings.

 

After that, you then will need to decide what geometry (layers) get what colors as you can use any colors now "and" assign a style to your layer. In the stb file, that is where you decide on which style gets what line weight.

 

For line type, we choose, use object line type in the stb file and for line weight, you make that whatever you want.

 

OK, so, let's say in the drawing, you have a layer named CADfused, and you named a style (in the stb file) CADfusedStyle, then in the layer dialog box, just assign CADfusedStyle to layer CADfused.

 

Make sense?

 

So, again, the converting is not too much work.

On line you can fine what true line weight red would be back in the day, if we were using Leroy pens and so on for each color.

Then you can make your styles to match.

 

The question then becomes, do we care about converting old drawings? Do we just use Stb going forward etc. etc.

What colors for what geometry do we use?

I think you get 26 styles which is a lot better then 9 colors, so now you can really open up to more line weights then in the past, so that may become a subject of debate.

 

After you have done all of that, then you can certainly automate the process, via a LISP or VBA routine.

 

If I remember correctly, I had created some STB drawing templates as well, then I used Layer Translator somewhere in the process, which was kind of cool. If you have 2 drawings with identical layer names and you translate one drawing using another drawing, the layer name will remain the same but the line type and color will be update (translated); so that was also useful in the process as well

 

Not too much work, just a lot of considerations

 

Hope this helps

 

ML

[Cadfused]

Thank you for the great lesson and detailed explainations. You are correct, the prior term was "Pack and Go". I don't think they even have an icon for "Etransmit". that is one of those, you either know it or you don't, things.

Thank you for getting back to me with that info. It helps in future considerations and directions to take things.

[ML0940]

Hey CADfused

No problem, any time.

 

The Etransmit is under File-Saveas, in the first pull down.

 

If you get into the conversion and make some decisions, I may be able to help you automate the process abit, if you'd like

 

ML

[Cadfused]

When, and if, we are able to get to that point, in this place, I would most likely take you up on that offer. I greatly appreciate it. thanks.

[ML0940]

Yes, I can understand that, trust me, I have been there.

 

From what I have found, it is always best to get upper management behind you on major objectives like re doing The CAD Standards from the ground up.

 

If you are the CAD Manager and able to make the decisions, then "unfortunately" we have to say sometimes, this is the way we are doing it. If they don't comply then there needs to be some level of recourse.

 

I always try to go the diplomatic way first; I will ask a majority of users, or some key users; then there is the inclusion factor that people appreciate.

 

After you have taken it all in, then generally majority rules and all must comply.

 

CAD Meetings are very important in my opinion, in order to keep all on the same page.

 

Also, with the old dogs, there has to come a point to where you stop entertaining the conversations such as, couldn't we just do this and do that.

 

Yes, we could, but if you push this button here, I just saved you about 15 other steps

 

It can be very challenging, I know.

 

Another thing I had to learn the hard way is to never ***** about a manger on a public forum because there is a good chance that they will go see it

 

So, I try to keep my venting to private messages

 

ML

[ML0940]

Hey CAD, don't be shocked

Many have helped me TREMENDOUSLY and still do help me

 

I have had the privilege of knowing some great programmers and CAD users.

 

Now, as with all of us; this offer is time permitting

 

So, go for it man!

 

Start the conversion

 

CTB is Old shool!

In my opinion

 

ML

[Cadfused]

We don't actually have a CAD manager, to speak of. We have an IT person but he oversees all programs. I was a CAD coordinator in a prior job and just was getting sick of hearing how people were going to correct the pen settings, here, and never doing it. If you want to get something done...and done right, you have to do it yourself. To this point i do have senior staff supporting me with pen settings. I plan to push for CAD training when we implement ADT2007....at some point (you know how that goes, the promise of upgrade that never seems to quite happen) and setting up templates to make sure people use the correct formats. all is one step at a time and with the good graces of the senior staff. Hopefully, it will be in the time you can allot. can't make that gaurantee but i certainly appreciate and welcome insight and knowledge of the CAD community.

 

Have a nice night.

[ML0940]

Thanks CAD

You too!

 

I understand you on all points; it sometimes makes me ask myslf, WHY?

 

Life was so much easier when I was draing lines and circles

 

ML

[dumfatnhappy]

(oYo)

[rkent]

Hello Everyone,

I just wanted to get a general input from our AutoCad community on your preference and why for CTB plot styles and STB plot styles. In short, I am in the Architectural field and where I work, once there was a standardised pen table list for our drawings. The big mishap was that the pen styles were saved to each computer hard drive instead of on the network and what once was a list of, maybe 7 or so CTB styles has now become many differening from work station to work station. I'm spearheading getting back to a standard so our drawings plot the same line weights from studio to studio in our facility. I asked a couple others to aid me in this. One is leaning heavy to using STB styles, though we currently use CTB. An issue, i do believe our facility would face by changing to STB would be, as i understand, the drawing has to be created and started using an STB file in order to print using it, as opposed to the originally created drawing using CTB. is this myth or fact? What do you prefer? I appreciate any input to aid in my decision of how to lead our Cad personnel.

 

Thank you,

Cadfused

quote]

 

A good article discussing the differences between STB and CTB.

Cadalyst.com

http://management.cadalyst.com/cadman/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=102922>

 

A good article on one firm's adoption of STB's. This is just one way of

many ways to set up STB standards so don't read this as the only way to use

STB's.

AUGI.com

May/June 2005 issue, page 24

[ReMark]

You can use CONVERTPSTYLES command to go from one to the other.

 

I use CTB. Long time AC user stuck in the past I guess.

[ML0940]

Hi Rkent

 

If you go back to the beginning of this post and read on, I think that you will find some of your questions have been answered.

 

I think that I went through the whole conversion process in this post.

 

God, I cringe at the thought of having to work with CTB again; it is just so limited to me.

 

I have helped spear head CAD Standard programs for 2 companies already and all I can say is. God help you!

LOL, Just kidding, it is actually..eh hemm, very challenging

 

I always say that it is best when upper management is behind you on it.

 

You did job my memory on one thing.

 

To the question about starting with stb; that is a yes, however, ctb can be converted to stb as mentioned by Remark; if you do that, I would make a copy of the ctb first, just to be safe.

Also, I prefer to share ctb and stb files on the network for the uniformity. We had a custom.ctb and a custom.stb as well, if the user needed a special change, but they were also told that the files were going to be overwritten each night by a script, to which they were; this way if anyone screwed up an original, we overwrote them from another location.

 

Also, on the other question; you reminded me that we started our drawing with one of two templates, that is ctb or stb. Then we changed it to all stb templates.

 

So, an old drawing can be converted or you can decide, any new projects, going forward are stb and ctb is legacy.

It is a bit of a pain for a while because you have to support both but in time, that will wither down.

 

So, yes, to start an new drawing, it must be created with an stb drawing template.

 

Good luck

 

ML

[richardkent]

Hi Rkent

 

If you go back to the beginning of this post and read on, I think that you will find some of your questions have been answered.

 

I think that I went through the whole conversion process in this post.

 

God, I cringe at the thought of having to work with CTB again; it is just so limited to me.

 

I have helped spear head CAD Standard programs for 2 companies already and all I can say is. God help you!

LOL, Just kidding, it is actually..eh hemm, very challenging

 

I always say that it is best when upper management is behind you on it.

 

You did job my memory on one thing.

 

To the question about starting with stb; that is a yes, however, ctb can be converted to stb as mentioned by Remark; if you do that, I would make a copy of the ctb first, just to be safe.

Also, I prefer to share ctb and stb files on the network for the uniformity. We had a custom.ctb and a custom.stb as well, if the user needed a special change, but they were also told that the files were going to be overwritten each night by a script, to which they were; this way if anyone screwed up an original, we overwrote them from another location.

 

Also, on the other question; you reminded me that we started our drawing with one of two templates, that is ctb or stb. Then we changed it to all stb templates.

 

So, an old drawing can be converted or you can decide, any new projects, going forward are stb and ctb is legacy.

It is a bit of a pain for a while because you have to support both but in time, that will wither down.

 

So, yes, to start an new drawing, it must be created with an stb drawing template.

 

Good luck

 

ML

 

Actually I quoted the OP and then was giving some links on articles that better define why someone might want to use one or the other.

[ML0940]

Oh. I'm sorry

Your end quote was not there and it appered to be a repeating question LOL

 

I thought that I had answered that

 

I will look at the link also, thank you

 

I can not see too many reason why someone would want to continue using ctb.

 

Yes, it is easier to work with but stb gives you so many more options, color wise.

 

ML

[ML0940]

Richard,

I just read the whole article, it is very good, thanks

 

For al the reasons that they mentioned, I really do prefer stb, however, in my last two postitions, the need to share .dwg files externally, outside of the comapny was not there. The last position, we made a global push to switch to stb.

 

So, going back to The OP's problem; I think it would be good to develop something in VBA or .net that would make the conversion process a bit easier.

 

Along with the 2 conversion methods nec., I also mentioned that I was using layer translator to take care of some of the layer mapping; it is very good for that. i wonder if Layer Translator is available in VBA hmmm

 

I actually did start old school; one year of Mech drafting and 1 year of Electrical drafting, all on the board, t-square and all.

 

There are some good sites out there that will tell you what lineweights that the old Leroy pens were and you can adjust your lineweights around that if your goal is to get a plot that was consistent with the look from back in the day.

 

It is actually a look that is familar to a lot of people still, I'm sure

 

ML

[Cadfused]

Hello Everyone,

I just wanted to get a general input from our AutoCad community on your preference and why for CTB plot styles and STB plot styles. In short, I am in the Architectural field and where I work, once there was a standardised pen table list for our drawings. The big mishap was that the pen styles were saved to each computer hard drive instead of on the network and what once was a list of, maybe 7 or so CTB styles has now become many differening from work station to work station. I'm spearheading getting back to a standard so our drawings plot the same line weights from studio to studio in our facility. I asked a couple others to aid me in this. One is leaning heavy to using STB styles, though we currently use CTB. An issue, i do believe our facility would face by changing to STB would be, as i understand, the drawing has to be created and started using an STB file in order to print using it, as opposed to the originally created drawing using CTB. is this myth or fact? What do you prefer? I appreciate any input to aid in my decision of how to lead our Cad personnel.

 

Thank you,

Cadfused

quote]

 

A good article discussing the differences between STB and CTB.

Cadalyst.com

http://management.cadalyst.com/cadman/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=102922>

 

A good article on one firm's adoption of STB's. This is just one way of

many ways to set up STB standards so don't read this as the only way to use

STB's.

AUGI.com

May/June 2005 issue, page 24

 

Thank you for the link. I printed it and will share it with my team.

[SPDCAD]

Personally I lean towards the STB.

 

I am a CAD User/instructor and have been teaching and working with cad for about 20 years. I have tough a lot of users in various disciplines. I usually am hire by firms to teach cad and implement CAD standards as well as cad tips and tricks.

What I have found funny through my experience is that most people have never heard of an STB, and those who have, have heard of it but never use it.

I do come across those who know and use an stb but they are rare.

Yes a CTB is easier to learn and reinforce in a standard (my opinion), but a STB gives freedom and if implemented right one have just as much control as a CTB.

Both a CTB and STB have their pro's and cons and I believe it should be up to the user on what he prefers to use. As long as a standard STB/CTB is supplied and accessed to all, usually on a network, then one can plot a drawing either way.

 

Thats my two cents, and a weeks pay.

[ML0940]

Hi SPDCAD

I actually do similar work as you. that is, I have a freelance business that I am working to diligently to go up and going.

 

I actually saw the reverse in my career, if you can believe that; that is, I was introduced to STB before CTB.

 

When I finally saw CTB, I was a bit shocked as to the complete limitations of it.

 

At one company, I was actually tasked to convert a lot of CTB drawings (and some plot styles) to STB.

 

Creating an very good automated process for this is something that I began but never sort of came back to.

 

ML